Help me choose a pair of SDC's

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deSilhouette

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Apologies that this is such an overdone topic but I haven't been able to find a previous thread which matches my situation closely enough (probably because of an over-abundance of threads).

As the title says I want to get a matching pair of condensers. Preferably budget priced or a little above.
I'd like to spend under $200 (I'm based in europe though so my money won't go as far.)

Primarily I can see myself using them to record acoustic guitar. Banjo too (unless I can get better results with an LDC).
I may also try my hand at using them as overheads. As regards the guitar and banjo I want something which nice and warm but not harsh in the upper range. Really just as long as they won't sound 'thin' (my big worry with budget equipment.)

I've done research on the Joe Meek JM27's, the MXL 603's and C1000s'. I've heard good things about the Kel Hm-1's too.
Please keep in mind that I have no opportunity to try any of these out before purchase.

Based on the information above what would people recommend (or say that would persuade me one way or the other.) Or, what alternatives would people recommend in that price range?
 
I've grown to like the hyped highs of my 603s pair less and less over time, and the naturalness of my KEL HM1 more and more.

Tim
 
Besides consistency between mic's... I've found the Oktava MK012's to be remarkable on acoustic guitar under the right circumstances. I got a sound I really like by using two of them in an X-Y at the 12th fret with my Peluso 2247 behind the bridge. You could probably substitute the Peluso for a SP B1 and still sound pretty decent.
 
tangerine said:
Go to this web page http://seelectronics.com/sE1a.html

I use two of these mics and I can honestly say they are unbeatable for the price.
Trust me on this one they are excellent, just look at the frequency range.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation. Anyone have any idea how they compare with the Joe Meeks?
Would anyone else recommend these?

tangerine said:
I've grown to like the hyped highs of my 603s pair less and less over time, and the naturalness of my KEL HM1 more and more.

Tim
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Tim. I guess I'll cross them off the list then. I've heard quite a few people say similar things. (I also see the C1000 coming in for a lot of complaints.)

Is the Hm-1 even the right type of microphone I'm looking for? ie. would it make sense to use a pair of them in stereo? Also, I've never heard of anyone using them for micing an acoustic guitar, are they more specific in their scope? Does anyone have any clue about how they sound in this sort of application?
(The tips section of the Kel website does show a tiny practice amp mixed up with two.)

The reason I havent included MK012's in my shortlist is that I've heard about a lot of problems with them but, more importantly, they almost never come up on ebay here.
 
deSilhouette said:
Is the Hm-1 even the right type of microphone I'm looking for? ie. would it make sense to use a pair of them in stereo? Also, I've never heard of anyone using them for micing an acoustic guitar, are they more specific in their scope? Does anyone have any clue about how they sound in this sort of application?
(The tips section of the Kel website does show a tiny practice amp mixed up with two.)
Click to expand...

I have a pair of Kel HM-1's. I absolutely love the mics on things like drum overheads and shrill / bright objects like violin , mandoline and the like. Acoustic guitar is NOT something it flatters in my opinion. I have tried it several times and it always sounds dull and lackluster.

I like my Oktavas, but my absolute favorite mic for acoustic is the Cad E-100.

Tom
 
I like my MK012s; prefer them to my other SDC pair, Rode NT5.

The 012s are nice because you can switch out capsules, as well as insert the -10db pads. And they sound pretty good!
 
Have a listen to the Oktava MK012 here it can give you an idea of how it sounds compare to other mics on a acoustic guitar

Best regards
Rusty
 
I got a pair of 603's and i love em....so far they have worked well as drum overheads, on acoustic piano and acoustic guitar...thats all ive tried them on though.
 
deSilhouette said:
...Thanks for that Tim. I guess I'll cross them off the list then. I've heard quite a few people say similar things. (I also see the C1000 coming in for a lot of complaints.)
Click to expand...

I have the highest regard for Tim (one of the good guys) and his always insightful opinions. Tim is an outstanding player and knows exactly what he wants in his equipment. However, I wouldn't cross the MXL603s off my list just yet. These are excellent acou guit mics, and IMO you will be hard pressed to find anything in their price range that is better on acou guit. The MXL603s has many fans, including Harvey Gerst, and it sounds absolutely nothing like the AKG C1000, which is indeed a harsh sounding mic. The MC012 is another excellent acou guit mic that sounds similar (but less bright) than the MXL603s.

Don't forget how your mic preamp affects overall tone. A Behringer mixer (at least the one I started with seven years ago) could make even a dynamic mic sound strident.

Keep in mind that every guitar sounds different. My old Larrivee D05 had a darker tone and loved phospher bronze strings, which tend to be bright. My current Webber is already a bright guit and hates phospeher bronze, so I use Elixer polyweb strings on it.

Another important tone regulator is mic positioning. I don't ever use eq on my guitar (ok, maybe a little bass rolloff :D ) because I spend time to get the mic positioning right.

Also rember the context of your recording. Are you doing solo acoustic, which usually wants a wide spectrum, holding down the bottom end of a bluegrass piece, or trying to cut through a busy, midrange heavy mix? Each one of these may require a different mic and/or micing technique.
 
I personally like the Joe Meek JM27's for both guitar and overheads better than anything I have heard at under $200 a pair. I realize this is all subjective, so I will post a short recording of a classical guitar recorded with one JM27 so you can compare it to other stuff:


Classical/JM27 SDC 160kbps MP3
 
Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean that I don't like the 603, just that I like it less than I used to. :D I like mic's with flat frequency response more, and especially smooth transient response, and that's a whole different thing than general frequency response, to my ear. The 603 can do good recordings. In my use of it it has tended to get a scooped sound - emphasising highs and lows. Nothing wrong with that, but not what I've been aiming for lately in guitar sound.

That's a nice piece amra. Is that track part of a mix?... wondering because I'd imagine the emphasized highs on it would make it stand out. I haven't used the JM27. To me it sounds similar to a 603.

I think mic demonstration tracks can be helpful, if one takes into account the many variables of source, room, pre, processing, etc. One track won't tell you anything definitive but if you hear a number of tracks using a particular mic it can give a feel for how the mic sounds.

FWIW here are two classical gtr duets using:
603s pair in AB a foot away, GR pre
KEL HM1 2 ft from bridge, EH 12AY7 pre

Tim
 
Last edited:
Check out the MSH-2.

Oops, the 2 isn't available yet, but the MSH-1 is very similar.
 
apl said:
Check out the MSH-2.

Oops, the 2 isn't available yet, but the MSH-1 is very similar.
Click to expand...
Yeah, yeah, yeah... we know a bait and switch promo when we see one.

:D Tim
 
Just a drive by shooting here...... I love MK-012s on acoustic.
That's all. :)
 
Timothy Lawler said:
That's a nice piece amra. Is that track part of a mix?... wondering because I'd imagine the emphasized highs on it would make it stand out. I haven't used the JM27. To me it sounds similar to a 603.
Click to expand...


Tim,
That part is basically an intro, I just tend to try brighten up nylon stringed guitars a bit both with mic position and a little EQ in the 2k range. I just kinda like it to have a bit of "shimmer" with lots of nice 'verb.

On the other hand, I am still working against studio monitors that over emphasize the high end, so I tend to mix a tad bright, trying thinking some of what I am hearing is overemphasized highs. By all means tell me if it sounds distractingly bright or harsh...

Thanks!
Amra
 
Without knowing exactly how the guitar sounds in the first place it's very hard to judge from sound clips. (Though that said I did quite like the sound of the MK012 on guitar from gearaudition. thanks for that link rustyblue.) :)
I've forgotton what negatives I'd heard about them before.

Also, Amra, that was a really nice piece and I love the tone. Very warm but with a nice brightness to it too. (Is the reverb added as an effect, or is that just the room I'm hearing?)

Tim I see what you're saying about the 603's and all of the soundclips that I've heard of them seem to have a slight sharpness to the high freqs that even I can detect (and I pretty much have cloth ears.)
 
The "sharpness" and "brightness" that some people hear in the MXL 603 is caused by a small peak at 7,000Hz. It can easily be eq'ed out with a 4 or 5 dB cut at that frequency.
 
It really depends on what kind of music you are doing and what sound you are going for. If you like the sound of a Neumann km184 on acoustic, then you will probably like the mxl603 or 604 *a lot*. The 603 exhibits surprising clarity and shimmer with a smooth bottom. If you prefer a grungier, veiled or more lo-fi sound, then you might like the mc012.
 
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