Help me appreciate acoutsic guitars

[Light]

Can I have a Bill Moll Archtop and a Lowden or maybe a Benedetto and a Martin 00. Wait do Mario Proulx guitars count as mass produced?? Not really!! I really can't answer that one sorry..OK a Lowden but only if England beat you guys in the Cricket World Cup tomorrow.

I would hardly call Bill Moll's guitars mass produced! I remember him telling me at the last Healdsberg festival that it took him hours to do all the purfling mitering on one of his Headstock. Can you imagine Martin or Gibson doing that? Let's not even mention Taylor - they can't even be bothered to miter their side purflings!


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Oh, and if I had to play a new factory acoustic, I'd probably do much like Muttley. I'd go into my favorite acoustic guitar store, put on a blind fold, and have them keep handing me guitars until I found the right one. That would be the keeper.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Most eloquently spoken, Light!

Why thank you.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ez_willis]

I have a customer with a 1934 Martin D-28 (the first year they ever made them - one of the most sought after guitars in the world) Right now it is probably worth $100,000 (in fact, I know for a fact he has been offered that much for it - IN CASH). He'll never sell it, as it was the guitar his father supported the family with for years, but the value is unquestionable. It is also one of the two or three best sounding guitars I've ever played.

Yeah, but does it have a Converse sticker on it?

I didn't think so!

It can make you weep with just a chord or two - it has Power.

Not me. I wouldn't "weep" if you beat me with it.

 

[Light]

Not me. I wouldn't "weep" if you beat me with it.

You would if you owned it, cause I would have just busted $100,000 over your head!

Honestly, though, after playing that guitar, if I had the money, I'd spend it on one of those things. They really are that good.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

I would hardly call Bill Moll's guitars mass produced! I remember him telling me at the last Healdsberg festival that it took him hours to do all the purfling mitering on one of his Headstock. Can you imagine Martin or Gibson doing that? Let's not even mention Taylor - they can't even be bothered to miter their side purflings!


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Yeh but Bill makes more than me. No they are not mass produced at all. He has some fine methods to speed things up. I've stolen quite a bit from him. At least Taylors purfling is glued on and not bolted

 

[ez_willis]

Honestly, though, after playing that guitar, if I had the money, I'd spend it on one of those things. They really are that good.

If I had that kind of money, I'd take it to Vegas and double it and buy each of us one, with Elixirs on them!

 

[Milnoque]

I have this Olympia acoustic (model OD5, I believe) made by Tacoma. I spent a whole day trying guitar out at my local shop. Probably went through about 50 guitars, with prices up to $1000. This $220 guitar blew them all out of the water. What I learned: acoustics were even less consistent (among the same models) than electrics. There were two of these Olympia guitars and one of them sounded like crap.

I got an Olympia acoustic bass for the same reason. It even ate the real Tacoma's lunch.

That doesn't make me regret paying the big bucks for my Northwood.

 

[gordone]

Look no further than a Goodall with a top from the "Big Goose Spruce" tree!
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2511.html

I actually played one of these at Medley Music/Acoustic Roots a couple of years ago. It was a used Grand Concert (I forgot what the B&S were made out of), it was a mighty fine instrument! And it was being sold for about $3500, which actually was an incredible price for a guitar with such a "famous" top. I was very tempted to dip into the HELOC to buy it....

I want a guitar made from 1000 year old wood.

As for high end acoustics, I have a Santa Cruz OM/PW, a Larrivee OM03R, Martin D16H (similar to a D18V), a 1956 Martin 00-18, a Taylor 512, and a Guild D25.

Why did I get the OM/PW? Because I LOVE acoustic music, and I was financially able to. Did I need it? Nope, but I wanted it! It gives me many hours of enjoyment sitting on the couch and banging away (while enjoying some nice coffee!). Do I gig with it? Usually not, my D16H, D25, or OM03R get to come with me "on the road".

I had a digital piano for many years, it sounded ok (actually the sound was REALLY good), had weighted keys, but it wasn't a real piano. I didn't play that much over the years. We finally bit the bullet and bought a low-end Yamaha P22 upright (for $5K!) and now I'm playing piano again! Something about the feel of the keys, the sound filling up the room, the connection between your hands/keys/soundboard/strings. I went back to the keyboard a couple of times and there was no connection/no "mojo"

When I play my Cruz or my 00-18, I get some of that mojo. Now my other guitars are great "utility" instruments and get the job done. But knowing my Cruz was built in a small facility (~700 guitars a year vs. Martin/Taylor's 70,000 a year!) and had a hand-tuned top and probably had Richard Hoover checking it out before it shipped out (in fact Mr. Hoover answered some questions I had sent in via email!) So the fact that it is from a small American company adds some intangibles to my enjoyment. The 00-18 is just "old" and was owned by my late Uncle, and given to me when he passed away. So it's kind of a family heirloom.

I will end my rambling now and note that I am listening to an AMAZING acoustic album - Neil Young's new "Live at Massey Hall", just Neil and his D-45! (and some piano too!) Life is good!

 

[JB1979]

There's one last thing. High end instruments hold their value and increase in value over time. They are actually very good investments. They outperform the stock market and you get to play them. What's the downside?

This is a pretty late reply to this, but anyhow...


The concept of selling any of my guitars or other equipment is unfathomable to me. It's as alien a mindset as those people who say to me "Why do you need all those guitars? You can only play one at a time." Granted, I've had steady pay-the-bills-plus-a-little employment since I was 19 so it was never a matter of selling off stuff to eat, but still, even the pieces that only get picked up off the rack once every 6 months or so have a lot of sentimental value to me.

As I think of it, if I could get past this (and an overpowering tendancy towards immediate gratification) I'd probably have 3 or 4 really "nice" (read "higher end/American made") instead of one nice one and 15 or 16 cheap-os.

I kinda think the pack-ratting is genetic though. My father has every guitar he ever bought (he's got up around 35 or 40 now I think) except for a Stingray bass which was before I was born I think (he never played bass), and he traded one of the 2 Silver Anniversary Strats he had to Gruhn for a Goldtop LP, which I think was an Anniversary model as well. Hell, he still has the original boxes and instruction manuals for all of his effects pedals (some he's had for almost 30 years), and every issue of Guitar Player magazine from like 76 and every issue of Guitar World since about 82.

 

[cephus]

he traded one of the 2 Silver Anniversary Strats he had to Gruhn for a Goldtop LP, which I think was an Anniversary model as well.

That is surprising. I remember playing a forlorned silver anniversary strat for literally years in a wheeling wv music store. Even as a 15 year old, I thought it was a turd.

No slam on your dad. I'm saying I think he probably got the better side of the bargain on that, at least as far as playability.

 

[Zaphod B]

Yeah, it's about the sound, and it's about the feel, but it's also about the smell, and the taste, and the look, and something more.

It's about the way the notes come to life, and the wood connects with your body. It is about the way the neck molds to your hand.

You play a great guitar, and it has this sound that just isn't there with other guitars.

Just what I'm talking about. Thanks, Light.

 

[Yareek]

My "expensive" acoustic guitar is a Tacoma DR-20E. It went for about $1500 or so when it was new, I bought it on eBay for $350. It had no flaws, it was just an unknown brand compared to Martin, Gibson, etc.

The important things in an acoustic are solid wood and quality workmanship. Bracing is probably the big thing which can either make a guitar sound vibrant and alive or boxy and dead. Laminate woods, especially laminate tops, make a guitar sound dull and quiet whereas solid helps project volume and improve dynamics.

You also have to think about the type of wood used, especially for the back and sides. Mahogany is common, sounds warm and a little mellow. Maple is louder and brighter, and rosewood has lots of lows and highs and is a little scooped in the mids. I prefer rosewood.

When I got my nice acoustic, it changed my approach to playing and songwriting. I couldn't put it down. Really helped me develop as a player.

You don't have to spend $3000 on a nice acoustic (and truth be told I *HATE* Taylor guitars), but if you buy a cheap one it won't be intonated properly, will sound small and dull, and won't be fun to play.

 

[JB1979]

I remember playing a forlorned silver anniversary strat for literally years in a wheeling wv music store.

Was it Gerrero's? (just outta curiousity, I grew up about 30 miles north of Wheeling on the other side of the river.)

Yeah, most of the guitars my dad has are mid 70s to early 80s, not the best time for Gibson or Fender (there's one Hamer in his collection too) I guess, but he always seems to set them up right. I think he added 4th and 5th countersunk screws to any of the 3-screw Strats that had stability issues.

 

[cephus]

Gerrero's. You're absolutely right. Their store at the mall had an awful ash strat. All natural with a black pickguard. It weighed a ton and had 1/8" of clearcoat on it. Terrible. Those two guitars are the main reason that I didn't hold out for a strat and bought a peavey t-60 at the pickin' parlour down the street. No one will believe me, but that peavey is a much better guitar than those fenders that are probably now worth a couple grand each.

I don't think I ever bought anything substantial from gerreros. Alot of stuff from ceo's and pickin' parlour.

 

[JB1979]

Small world.

I only think I ever went to the Wheeling Gerreros once or twice. I went to the Steubenville one more (when it was open) because it was like 6 or 7 minutes away from the house vice 30. That's where the ol' man bought my Crate Vintage Club.

Music City in Steubenville was where I took lessons when I first started out, so that was the store I hung out in the most. When they were going out of business like in 96 I remember bringing like $30 in rolled quarters and walking out with a DOD Octaplus and a BOSS Hyper Fuzz and thought I was the shit. I think during the same G..B. event dad paid $25 for a little tweed Fender amp with 2 knobs, I think a Champ reissue, that didn't power up because it needed a new on/off switch or something. Ended up being a cool little amp once it was working again.

I didn't really make any purchases other than that at either of those places because I was an unemployed highschool kid at the time.

 

[Milnoque]

This is a pretty late reply to this, but anyhow...


The concept of selling any of my guitars or other equipment is unfathomable to me. It's as alien a mindset as those people who say to me "Why do you need all those guitars? You can only play one at a time." Granted, I've had steady pay-the-bills-plus-a-little employment since I was 19 so it was never a matter of selling off stuff to eat, but still, even the pieces that only get picked up off the rack once every 6 months or so have a lot of sentimental value to me.

I would have said the same thing before my house went up in smoke.

 

[mrface2112]

I will end my rambling now and note that I am listening to an AMAZING acoustic album - Neil Young's new "Live at Massey Hall", just Neil and his D-45! (and some piano too!) Life is good!

what a wonderful album! i've had a bootleg from that tour (the show in London a month later) for years and it's always been one of my favorites.

it's weird hearing songs like Old Man and Journey Through the Past being introduced as "new".

but for naysayers of Neil's talent as a musician, they need to look no further than this album.

IIRC, that D-45 was once Hank Williams'.......


cheers,
wade

 

[Light]

IIRC, that D-45 was once Hank Williams'.......

He has several pre-war D-45s, including Hank Williams'. So does his guitar player, Grant Boatwright. A couple of those guitars, I've held in my hands.

THOSE, by the way, are $250,000 guitars these days, though back when those guys got them in the seventies they were just considered old guitars (well, except for the Hank Williams guitar), and weren't all that valuable.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[stetto]

Hmmm, ya know, this thread brought up a curiosity; Considering that many of today's premier "production" brands of acoustics started out as a one-to-a-handfull-at-a-time boutique operation (Gibson, Martin come to mind first), I wonder how many of the present day luthiers have aspirations to one day pump them out ala Taylor...Is it a general ambition or an exception? Some of the makers of highly sought after bench-made boutiques must, at some point, have to deal with the eventuality of a production line...

Eric