Help for someone starting out

[mojowon]

Hey guys, I am mainly a musician who is interested in doing some work with mixing tracks to produce the final product. I play in a Praise band and we record live every week onto a hard drive from our mixer. From the hard-drive we have 16 tracks of instruments and vocals recorded. I need advice and steps on how to take the raw tracks and mix them down using multi-track recording software. I have melody and harmony vocal parts (a total of 8 voices) that need to be mixed to produce a choir sound. The software I have is Adobe Audition. Is there a simplified tutorial that is concise to follow? And if there are any "tricks of the trade" that simplify the process would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Joza]

I hope someone can help you (maybe with a couple of links or so), but to me your question sounds like "how do I build a house?" If there are hundreds of books about it, its hard to answer in a short post.

 

[JoeDouglas]

Yeah if I were you, I'd pick up a book on it. When I was starting, I grabbed the "for dummies" one, it should give you the basics you need to know for something like that. Good luck!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Mixing is no more simple and concise to learn to do than learning how to play a guitar or sing well is.

Bring yourself and your tracks to a reputable studio and hire an engineer to pilot the gear while you navigate him to the sounds you want.

G.

 

[moresound]

Mixing is no more simple and concise to learn to do than learning how to play a guitar or sing well is.

Bring yourself and your tracks to a reputable studio and hire an engineer to pilot the gear while you navigate him to the sounds you want.

G.

^^^^THIS^^^^^
And as you work with an engineer you will learn along the way your self!

 

[Washburn100]

Question, are the 16 tracks your record actually seperate tracks?

By that I mean, you have 16 inputs of instruments and voices going into the mixer, but how do you record these to a hard drive. If it is just the main out from the mixer, you only have 2 channels so mixing is pretty much out.

 

[dintymoore]

Mixing is no more simple and concise to learn to do than learning how to play a guitar or sing well is.

Bring yourself and your tracks to a reputable studio and hire an engineer to pilot the gear while you navigate him to the sounds you want.

G.

I think mixing is way easier than learning to play an instrument. You don't have to learn to play time to mix and that's the hardest thing to do I've ever learned.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I think mixing is way easier than learning to play an instrument.

Learning how to mix like an amateur is pretty easy, sure. But considering learning how to mix *well* takes most people several years minimum, I don't see much of a difference between learning the studio and learning the guitar.

There is a bit of difference in perception, though; it's often easier for the lay person to tell the difference between a good guitar performance and a bad one than it is to tell the difference between a good mix and a bad one. It's a lot easier to get away with a bad mix than it is a bad guitar performance.

G.

 

[kcearl]

When mixing first thing is bring all your tracks up to the desired volume....keep everything around, say, -12db or more to give yourself plenty of headroom

a good idea is to bring the drums up first then get the bass to sit in with them (if you have drums that is)

once they are up in level start to pan out the tracks as if you were viewing the band...you know like a guitar slightly to the right, a keyboard to the left...as a rule of thumb leave the snare, kickdrum and bass in the middle to anchor it...and the lead vocals too if you have them..

start to pan them out, some sounds may sound like they are cancelling each other out or on top of each other...a little EQ can give them their own frequency to sit it (call that the "height" for arguments sake) while a little delay and/or reverb can give them a bit of depth..avoid panning out to an extreme right and left as other than a special effect this is unlikely how the music would sound to a listener standing in front of you..

try to imagine the soundscape as being three dimensional rather than 2D with an imaginery "height" and get each track to sit in its own place but not out of touch with the others..

muddy areas in a lot of instruments start at around 250 - 800Hz so watch this area as it may need little cuts in frequency around here to keep the overall mix clear

watch you drums and bass, these should drive things along so dont let them get buried

this is very basic explanation so i hope im not insulting you with its level and Im sure the "big boys" will correct my attempt...but this should get you going

mixing seems to be something some pick up quickly while others just dont get...you should get a half decent demo out of a few attempts and some reading... but Polydor wont be knocking for a while

 

[dintymoore]

Doing anything well takes years or even a lifetime. The more we learn the more we realize we know very little.

That being said... a beginner can get pretty good results mixing sometimes. A beginner on violin... not so good. I know a chick and the first tune she ever mixed was Bobby Caldwell's "What You Won't Do for Love". First tune she ever mixed. You can't hit home runs on a musical instrument first time out.

 

[kcearl]

i forgot once you get a mix together..convert it to an mps3 and host ot on something like dropbox, soundclick, reverbnation and post it in the mp3 clinic forum...the guys there will really help you with your mix regardless the genre...listening to others there and the points written can also help

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The point is that mixing is not just a procedure, it's a skill. One does not just ask, "OK, how do I play guitar; what is the procedure and what are the tricks?" and asking a similar question of mixing is just as mistaken.

If one really wants to undertake the journey of learning how to mix in the way they would want to undertake the journey of learning how play an instrument, that's fine. But when there are so, so many who are of the impression that mixing is just a task that just requires learning a basic procedure and maybe a couple of tricks, and that anybody with a computer can do easily and have it sound like their mePod playlist, that's where they and us get into trouble.

It's only fair that they be advised that one does not just sit down and mix and get it over with any more than they just pick up a guitar for the first time and start playing it with any sense.

If, OTOH, they just want something mixed - i.e. they don't really want to be an engineer if it's not as easy as they think - then they're better off bringing in someone who has already taken the journey for them.

G.

 

[kcearl]

yeah you tell 'im.....

he just wants to mix his band tracks...no biggie..if you dont want to give him pointers other than.."it will take years to become an engineer" or "take it to a professional"...then why bother posting at all?


its like groundhog day in here half the fucking time......


have at it

 

[dintymoore]

yeah you tell 'im.....

he just wants to mix his band tracks...no biggie..if you dont want to give him pointers other than.."it will take years to become an engineer" or "take it to a professional"...then why bother posting at all?


its like groundhog day in here half the fucking time......


have at it

ditto

Everyone who is any good started out by screwing it up, that's how you learn. That applies to most everything.

How many pros got good by taking their first project to a pro studio?

I'll bet most pros started out on crap gear, playing through a cheap home stereo and recording on a $30 cassette deck and it sucked. That, to me, is normal.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

1. Start with some headroom.
2. If something's too loud, turn it down.
3. If something's too quiet, turn it up.
4. If something sounds bad, figure out why and change it so it sounds better.
5. If the mix is too busy, take something out.
6. When you think you're done make it as loud as you need it to be and repeat #2 through #5 until it's right, then skip to #7.
7. Listen to your mix on a variety of systems. If it's good then you're done, if not go back to #2.

This isn't a list of rules, it's a recipe. There are other good recipes that you might like better. #2 through #5 can be done in any order that suits you. #6 is optional, but you'll want to "master" your mix at some point, either doing it yourself or taking it to someone knowledgeable.

 

[NYMorningstar]

The point is that mixing is not just a procedure, it's a skill. One does not just ask, "OK, how do I play guitar; what is the procedure and what are the tricks?"...yada yada yada G.

I think the point is This is "HOME"recording.com. The point is not, Sorry you can't do it you have to come to a studio pro like me...yada yada yada.

You've picked up a few tricks here, why not share them with this guy instead of discouraging him?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

then why bother posting at all?t

I gave him solid advice. If you can't recognize it for what it is, that's not my problem.

Not everyone wants to actually get involved in mixing as an avocation. Some folks just want their tracks mixed, and the only reason they want to initially do it themselves is because they think it's a simple 1-2-3 process akin to making a pot of coffee. Actually letting him know the truth right out of the gate is doing him a favor, smart ass.

If he wants to go through the greater-than-he-thinks effort it's going to take him just to get one decent mix, that's one option. If all he wants, OTOH, is to get his tracks mixed well, more efficiently and cheaper than that, then hiring a pilot to help him get there and to show him just what's involved along the way, is excellent advice.

The only ones who should be answering the question "why bother posting at all?" are the clowns who have no idea what they are talking about but feel they need to get their opinion out there anyway.

G.

 

[dintymoore]

I gave him solid advice. If you can't recognize it for what it is, that's not my problem.

I wouldn't call this good common sense advice to the OP:

... Bring yourself and your tracks to a reputable studio and hire an engineer to pilot the gear while you navigate him to the sounds you want...

You sound grumpy and you're not looking at the Big Picture which is that this site is largely people wanting to do it themselves and learn by screwing up.

Here's my 2 cents:

Start with the kick drum and put it dead center. If you have to, eq the kick to get a sound right for the song. I like a kick that sounds like "TUG!". It's got two components - the "T" which is the beater hitting the head and the "UG!" which is the whole drum sound.

Then add the bass, again dead center. You can put the kick and bass to the slight left and right also if you like. I usually do them both dead center.

Put something like the high hat hard left and something equally light to the hard right. This is just how i do it.

Put the lead "thing" - lead vocal or guitar or sax, whatever it is, in the center.

Then fill in the areas to the left and right of the center with other guitars and keyboards. If your keyboard is going stereo even better.

Try to use as little eq as you can, and in general subtracting instead of boosting sounds better.

Always aim to record as well as you can so that you don't need to eq too much. The best recordings I've done were when the sounds were so "right" that I didn't need any eq.

You don't need to record or mix as loud as you can. Most of my individual tracks run 1/2 to 3/4 of the way.

Find the best recorded example of your genre and put that up there with your tracks so that you can compare it to your song.

Get it as good as you can and then post an mp3 here and people will give you all kinds of advise - like food at a buffet, take what you need and leave the rest.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

You sound grumpy and you're not looking at the Big Picture which is that this site is largely people wanting to do it themselves and learn by screwing up.

You get some clown who has gone on the record promising with a Mafia-style accent to follow you around the board and make your life miserable, and let's see just how grumpy you sound when you reply to him.

As far as common sense advice, name me one skill-based task - whether it's for hobby home use or not - where someone would not prefer to have someone show them in person some of the basic ropes of just what's involved the first time around *before* they decide whether they want to go ahead and go down the whole "learn from your own mistakes" path.

If someone has never even held a hammer before, would you prefer to tell them to just learn from their mistakes when they want to know how to build a new rec room for their house over suggesting that they get some help from someone who at least knows a little carpentry in building at least the first wall? Then after that they can decide whether they actually feel they are up to doing the rest of it themselves?

And if all the guy wants is to build the one wall and isn't actually interested in getting into carpentry as a hobby after that, then what's the point in taking the time, money and effort into learning from their mistakes?

Personally, Ithink it's great advice that *anybody* who really wants to learn this stuff get help and advice the first time around from someone who's been there before. After that they can do or not do what they want. What's wrong with that? It's exactly what they are doing when they come to boards like this, isn't it?

There are two important differences, of course: First is that having someone there in person to help them out is a couple of magnitudes better than asking some stranger a million miles away via text messaging. Second is that you don't have to sort though the opinions of people with knowledge that spans the range from expert to social butterfly and figure out who actually knows what they're talking about.

Yes, this is home recording. But since when does that mean that starting out with someone holding your hand through the first time around is a bad idea?

G.

 

[dintymoore]

Very few people can afford getting "in person" advice from the start.

Why not just give people some stuff that might help them?

For instance:

The whole band is built around the kick, so spend lots of time getting it right first and build your song on top of it. That's where you start.