Help Desperately Needed!!!

[nanco]

Hi, I have been using home recording for just over a year now and basically know the ins and outs. I currently have the following equipment:

PC:

P4 3GHZ
1GB RAM
Maxtor SATA and IDE HDD's with more than enough space for recording
M-Audio Delta 1010LT sound card

Recording equipment:

Shure SM57
Whirlwind "Hotbox" DI
Whirlwind cables
Nuendo Sequencer
Toontracks DFH Superior

Instruments:

Ibanez JEM7V
Fender Strat
Marshall half stack
Korg X5D MIDI controller/synthesizer

I currently mic the amp up via SM57 and run that directly into my soundcard. I used to have a Behringer UB1204 mixer however I had some noise and eq problems with it so I therefore got rid of it.

I am now in the situation where I need advice on how to obtain some kind of phantom power supply, be it mixer or pre amp of somekind as I plan on buying a Rode NT1a and also for powering my active Whirlwind DI box.

Today, I received a Presonus Tube Pre. I used it to power my DI box so I could use it for recording however the same results applied as to when I had the UB1204 (altered eq and hissing noise). I tried altering many aspects (eq, cables, even plugging directly into the Tube Pre rather than DI) and nothing changed.

Before I unintentionally waste any more money on buying things that give me the exact same results as of previous, what could I be overlooking here?

As mentioned, the main problem I'm having is excessive hissing noise (from both the UB1204 and Tube Pre so far), however this doesnt occur when I record directly into my sound card via SM57.

Is a change in eq common amongst using various mixers and preamps even with flat eq set on them?

ANY help or recommendations at all would be appreciated as I am determined to make this work in the end.

 

[studiomaster]

Its not really EQ but its the noise level. by getting a preamp, u will most likely get better results towards noise level in the background. also, by using a preamp, the quality is much more crisp. the EQ is totally user-configurable. when its set to 0, its flat, regardless of which mixer or preamp u are on. If i were u, i would get a compact mixer and a preamp since u are buying a pretty decent mic(NT1a) and have lots of instruments. u can connect all ur equipment onto the mixer.

 

[Anfontan]

I use a Mackie 1202 for recording-its very quiet, has 4 Low impedence/4 stereo line in inputs & configured like a swiss army knife of mixers and has tons of headroom as well. I record a track or two at a time so its great for my purposes, these have been out for years so I bet you could find a excellent deal on a used one out there, Ebay or Music store. Good luck with the recordings!

 

[gecko zzed]

if mixer and pre-amp are both making noise, but mike direct in isn't, you may need to look at where these things are being plugged into. Possible the mixer and pre were going into the mike level input of the soundcard, and this would be one explanation for the moise, i.e. the sound card is getting too much level.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Sounds to me like you have a gain staging issue, or an impedence mismatch. Let's review.- The mic into the soundcard is OK, but as soon as a preamp or mixer is involved, you have a lot of noise, whether the source is a mic into the preamp/mixer, or an active DI into the preamp/mixer. Are you plugging the line out of the preamp/mixer into the RCA jacks or the XLR jacks of the soundcard?

Now, here are some snippets of the technical specs of the Delta card:

"8x8 analog I/O, balanced on female XLR and unbalanced on gold-plated RCA connectors, with signal level adjustments selectable within the Delta Control Panel."

"The 2 balanced XLR analog inputs can be set via hardware jumpers to accept microphone level or line level signals."


Looks to me like there's 2 ways to go from a pre or a mixer to this card. One is to use a shielded patch cable from whatever balanced out you have into the XLR ins, using the hardware jumpers referred to above to configure the sound card's XLR ins for +4dBu *line level* operations. If you don't do that, you are sending a +4 line level signal into a mic input, which will suck to varying degrees, depending on the actual impedence of the mic input and the strength of the line level signal that is overwhelming it. It can range from brutal hiss to actually blowing up the preamp- and yes, the Delta has preamps in it.

The second is to send a line level signal to the RCA line inputs, noting that they must also be configured for +4dBu line level. As a rule (not always), RCA inputs are configured for -10dBV input (consumer line level, what you would expect from the "tape out" on a mixer, a CD player, or home stereo), which is quite a bit weaker than +4 (professional line level, which is what comes out of most preamps, or the main outs of most mixers.) The point is, not all "line levels" were created equal. I suspect that you are either plugging a line level into a mic input, which sucks, or more likely, you are plugging a +4 or -10 line out into an input that is looking for the other one. Some preamps can be configured to put out either +4 or -10 with a switch. Some others have completely separate +4 and -10 outputs. Some only put out +4. Most home stereo receivers only put out -10. I'm guessing that there's a way to switch your soundcard's inputs back and forth, but I'm not familiar enough with the soundcard to tell you how. I expect it is in the signal level adjustments in the Delta control panel referred to above. Somebody on this board that owns one will know how.

Otherwise, you need to use jumpers to configure those XLRs for a +4 line level signal. I'm betting that will give you your best sound, but may be a pain in the ass to switch back and forth. Tell us exactly what inputs you're using on the Delta. Hope that helps.-Richie

 

[nanco]

Hi, thanks for the help!

Firstly, I have actually been considering getting a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro for general preamps and mixing. I've not heard one bad review on them unlike other mixers.

One thing I actually forgot to mention was that, with either the UB1204 or the Presonus pre amp, I dont actually need to plug any input into them to get hiss (which appears on the recordings). With my Behringer, all I had to do was plug in the mains and speakers, increase the volume to audible level and the hiss would be present. I have been thinking that this might be a power issue seeing as I get the noise from external hardware in comparison to internal. Could it be possible, and if so what should I do?

I basically understand what you mean Richard, the M-Audio control panel has options to select ins and outs to either +4, consumer, or -10. I will have to keep reading over this post to get the jist of it, but for now I've always had the levels set for consumer. I probably fiddled about with these settings (along with pretty much everything else in the control panel) before otherwise I wouldnt have ditched my Behringer.

When I used my Behringer, I had the two XLR's (channels 1 and 2) and two RCA's (channles 3 and 4) plugged into it. Channels 1 and 2 were set to main mix whereas channels 3 and 4 were set to alternate.

Currently, I use the same channels (XLR obviously for mics and RCA for synth L+R inputs) and have no problems with hiss when recording.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Nanco! What you have posted confirms my suspicion. It doesn't really matter whether you use the XLR or RCA ins, although I would prefer balanced operations when possible, meaning the XLR's. What's important is that you send a +4 out to a +4 in, or a -10 out to a -10 in. Also, make sure that whatever cables you are using are heavily shielded patch or interconnect cables, *not* speaker cables, which are not shielded, and will pick up beaucoup transformer hum and electromagnetic interference. I'm pretty sure at this point that if you send a +4 signal from the preamp/mixer to a +4 input, your hiss will be all but gone, and all of your level settings will change. Best of luck.-Richie

 

[nanco]

Nice one!

Just to confirm, heres what I have decided to do: get the mackie mixer, hook everything up to that (soundcard and instruments), configure sound levels on the soundcard control panel, and moniter levels externally through that. I will have no unwanted noise problems whatsoever?

Say I still have hiss after following the procedures, what should I do then? I know it might not come to this, but just to make sure before I blow a couple of hundred on a mackie then find out I need yet some MORE equipment, what should I consider then?

 

[Richard Monroe]

First, you may still have a noise floor- *all* preamps produce *some* self noise. That is part of the reason why top preamps are in the range of $1000+ per channel. Figure the price of a mixer divided by the number of channels, and do the math. However, *your* noise problem appears to be above and beyond the call of duty. Take the tube pre you already have, and configure the inputs to match the +4 line level output, use good patch cables, and see if your noise problem gets better. If it doesn't, the odds are I have incorrectly diagnosed your problem. Sure, an ART tube pre makes some noise, but it shouldn't be producing a big ugly hiss unless the tewb gain is turned up.-Richie