HELP!! Best INFORMED choices to complete my system/home studio?

[Choctaws Coach]

Hello ... major n00b here with a few home studio gear questions, specifically as relates to digital recording using a computer and rack equipment, inside a lengthy rambling post ... which is why I posted this cry for help here, even though I think some of these single items are probably covered, at least tangentially, elsewhere on this board ... what I have is more of a combination of related questions with many possible answers, and since I couldn't find any threads related to my specific deal, here goes ...

It'll make more sense if I describe my current setup. Here's the big picture of what's what, gear-wise, at the moment:

Instruments: '85 Fender Telecaster, '83 Fender Jazz, '92 Martin HD-28, '67 Kimball upright piano, violin, cheap MIDI keyboard controller, couple other (cheap) guitars, etc ...

Misc equipment: small 50-watt solid-state Marshall guitar amp, small 35-watt solid-state Fender bass amp, two AKG mics (one nice condenser, one rather average dynamic), various effects stomp boxes (delay, flanger/chorus, Tube Screamer), a few sets of headphones, and an older Boss drum machine that I can't really use to record because there's no easy way to eq any of the single drums by themselves before they get into the computer as the entire "drum set" ... so I bought some software and I just program the drums, and that works fine ...

Rack equip: Furman RP-8 power conditioner, Behringer 2200 Ultragain mic pre, Behringer MDX2600 Composer Pro-XL Compressor/gate/limiter/expander/de-esser, Behringer V-Amp Pro, Behringer Bass V-Amp Pro, Behringer Powerplay Pro headphone amp, and a Tascam Portastudio 424 MkII (I'm not recording on the Tascam anymore, I'm sorta using it as a mixer but mostly a way to bring all the cables from the different rack units together so I can then run one signal to the computer -- the Audigy's line in -- via one cable, then I've got a line out from the Audigy going back to the headphone amp) ... BTW I did have to send the Behringer compressor back for a new one (the power button was faulty) but I really haven't had a minute's worth of trouble out of the replacement unit or any of the rest of the Behringer rack units, so from what I've read here I guess I'm one of the lucky Behringer customers ... their prices are just too good for me to ignore, I guess I'll have to get bitten hard before I start avoiding them ...

Computer hardware: Pentium IV 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, running Win XP Pro SP2, big fast hard drives, Sony CD/DVD writer, soundcard is a Creative Labs Audigy (the one w/ the SB1394 port -- this is a firewire port, right? If my research is accurate it is the IEEE 1394a standard, and apparently that may be either outdated or at least on its way out, like maybe I could buy something thinking it would interface with this firewire port only to find out that it can't because the card is too old? I bought that card with this computer and so I got it way before I had any notions of using firewire to get sound into the computer, so I'm kinda shaky on this point)

Software: Nuendo 1.5, LM4-MKII VST drum module, Rebirth 2.0, Wavelab 3.0, various plug-ins and other stuff, Creative Labs stuff that came w/ the Audigy

Okay, so there you have it. I've been playing for some 25 years and have been picking up some of this stuff (some used, some new) ever since I started, some of it dating back to my high-school and college garage-band days (well, some of it is obviously newer than that!). I've been goofing around recording stuff off-and-on (mostly off) for about 7 years, and my daughter is singing and playing the violin and my son is playing piano and all three of us are writing music as well, now, so the time is right and we're going to town, but the stuff I record? Well, it isn't exactly ready for prime-time, if you know what I mean. So, I'm reading books on home studio recording, reading sites on the 'net like this one, trying to learn more about eq and mixing and mastering and all of that rot ... and preparing to buy some things in my quest to be able to finally get my system working the way it should so I can record something that sounds halfway decent ...

But what I'm trying to do now -- what I need YOUR help with -- is to complete this mess that IMO is *ALMOST* a relatively decent home studio. In other words, I think I've got it pretty close, at least for my needs -- but it's just not quite there. Having said that, I do NOT want to just go buy some things to try to finish it off without getting some good advice first. For instance, I'm just now learning about balanced outputs and all of the things related to that subject (yeah, I'm the stereotypical Nigel Tufnel-esque clueless guitarist, my amps go to 11, and I bought a bunch of stuff without knowing about these fundamental things ... obviously I'm a salesman's dream, eh? ), and, worse, I've got this monstrosity of a "home studio" hooked up like you simply would not believe in a mishmash of unbalanced instrument cables, balanced 1/4 inch cables, RCA outputs into a Y-splitter, yadda yadda ... it works, sorta, but IMO it truly is a mess that could be so much better ... ...

So, finally (sorry!), now that you all know way more than you wanted to know about my situation, here's my question(s): what would be the best (quality-wise but also efficiency-wise) way to get sound from the mics / guitar amps or V-amps or whatever, thru the mic pre / compressor / Bass V-amp (as a vocal processor, for instance), finally to the computer? And what do I need to buy to make this happen?

I've looked at mixers, patch bays (I'm having trouble understanding balanced vs. unbalanced patch bays, too, is it really as simple as it sounds/looks? Probably not ... lol ...), special soundcards with firewire ports and daughter cards, mixers that hook into firewire ports but don't come with the card, etc., etc. Half of the stuff in the Musician's Friend catalog looks like something I could use, but I'm not a millionaire! And, I'd like to use what I already have, too. I think the answer may be some combination of a few things ... but nothing I've seen fits the bill. I don't really NEED any more mic pres, for instance, but apparently all of the mixers have them ...

So, to clarify, here are my goals:

1) I want to have a real mixer of some sort, preferably with motorized faders, to run the DAW without using a blasted mouse ... I'd like to not go over $500 here if at all possible ... so the Digidesign stuff is out obviously lol ...

2) I want to have some BETTER way of cabling all this varied stuff up so that all the lines are balanced, and the hookups make SENSE (if that makes any sense lol) ... patchbays? Balanced/unbalanced? Brands? Other optons?

3) I want to have some way of going from the rack equipment into the mixer (or from the mixer through the rack equipment as an insert? I r n00b, hear me roar ), but in any case THEN into the computer in the highest quality and most efficient way ... firewire?

4) I'd love to ditch this Audigy or at least use something different for recording (although my son and me are gamers, too, so I wouldn't want to get something that replaced the Audigy for recording but couldn't hold it's own for the computer's other purpose, dig? Maybe a computer dedicated to recording is in the future, but it's not any time soon) -- this one goal could probably be related to #3 above, like with the M-Audio cards or something similar to that? Could that card go into the computer ALONG with the Audigy and so I'd just use whichever one is appropriate? Or would that cause all kinds of issues?

5) I really am not going to be able to spend half a mint on whatever the solution turns out to be ... it's obvious that I've already sunk quite a bit into all this so why not go all out just a little further, yet I do have a family to support here lol ... I can continue to buy a few things over time, of course, like I've been doing. But Gear Acquisition Syndrome won't be able to fully take hold as long as the boss knows what I'm doing and as long as I don't lose my mind and let my eyes get bigger than my wallet ...

Folks, any help at all will be VERY much appreciated!!! I've been reading this board and you folks are awesome, knowledgeable, and very helpful. Thanks for your patience reading this post, and thanks in advance for your help!

L8r,

Choctaws Coach

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

How many channels do you want to be able to record simultaneously? That's a big question when considering how you want to get your analog signals into a digital environment.

A control surface for <$500 is a fairly big ask. If you could stretch your budget by another $100 I believe the Tacam FW 1082 would probably do what you need it to do:

http://www.tascam.com/Products/fw1082.html

It's a firewire interface which takes care of 8 channels of A-D conversion and 2 channels of D-A, it has mic preamps with P Power on 4 of the ins, one of the ins is switchable to an instrument input and it has MIDI in/out also (2 channels). Channels 1 and 2 also have inserts for use with outboard gear and all channels have regular line inputs.

It also comes with Cubase LE with which it integrates so all of your fader movements, transport controls etc. are mirrored in the software. I'm pretty sure it would work with Nuendo too but I'd double check that.

If you were to have a problem with the integrated firewire you could always get a PCI firewire card which can be had for as little as $15-20.

You could also look at a combination of a PCI soundcard (I like the M Audio stuff) and the Behringer MIDI controller:

http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[rayc]

STEP ONE -
With all that GOOD gear DITCH the Audigy & get a GOOD sound card that will do the rest justice.

 

[Choctaws Coach]

Thanks! Follow up ...

How many channels do you want to be able to record simultaneously? That's a big question when considering how you want to get your analog signals into a digital environment.

A control surface for <$500 is a fairly big ask. If you could stretch your budget by another $100 I believe the Tacam FW 1082 would probably do what you need it to do:

http://www.tascam.com/Products/fw1082.html

It's a firewire interface ...

Thanks, Kevin. I could deal without recording a lot of channels at once, since I'm not recording a band or miking drums and since we can all play seperately, I guess, theoretically, even two channels might be enough (to get stereo separation)?

I really like the Tascam FW-1082; I did a lot of reading about it even before I posted to this board, but Musician's Friend has it listed for $799 w/ a "guaranteed lowest price" so until you said this I had no idea I could get it for $599 (which I can, several places sell it for that price -- I need to do better about checking prices at several stores before I write something off as being too expensive). Even that is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but from what I can tell so far that unit sure would seem to fit the bill for exactly what I'm looking for, filling many roles at once, without many -- if any -- obvious drawbacks. I'll post something to the specific area of this board about the Tascam and see if I can get some more feedback on it.

STEP ONE -
With all that GOOD gear DITCH the Audigy & get a GOOD sound card that will do the rest justice.

Very well, rayc, and I agree completely, the Audigy is obviously the weakest link in the chain here ... but what card -- with a firewire interface -- to replace it with? Or do they all come with a firewire interface now? Also, the card won't have to have a ton of inputs and outputs, or come with Cubase (like some of the combination sound card/interfaces do), if I'm going to buy and use the Tascam ... suggestions? I honestly have no idea ... E-MU 1212M? M-Audio Delta 1010 LT PCI? M-Audio Audiophile 192? I'm looking at all these cards and I can't tell if half of them even have a firewire interface ... am I missing something? Or are there better cards for roughly the same money elsewhere?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

If you use something like the tascam you will not need another soundcard, it will take care of playback as well as recording.

The downside of course is that you have to keep switching the control surface on when you want to play games or whatever. You could just retain the audigy and switch between the two dependant on what it is you're doing.

It's easy enough to change the settings in windows.

If you did want a card to use with a midi controller like the Behringer and you only needed 2 channels i'd go with the M Audio audiophile 2496, the 1010LT would be overkill considering your requirement for inputs.

 

[Choctaws Coach]

If you use something like the tascam you will not need another soundcard, it will take care of playback as well as recording.

The downside of course is that you have to keep switching the control surface on when you want to play games or whatever. You could just retain the audigy and switch between the two dependant on what it is you're doing.

It's easy enough to change the settings in windows.

I think the Tascam w/o a new sound card makes the most sense for me; I guess I just didn't understand that the Tascam unit was in a sense going to BECOME the equivalent of the computer's sound card.

My PC is only 2 years old, but it doesn't already have a firewire interface; the Audigy has one but I'd prefer not to use it for that if I can get away with it. I looked at a combo USB/Firewire card w/ a front panel hub that looks like it will work (http://sewelldirect.com/usbfirewirecombocard6and2port.asp).

So with this deal I could just plug the Tascam (with the firewire cable I'd have to buy, obviously) into the front hub's firewire port whenever I'm ready to record, and all the data goes in and out throught that port, but I'd leave the Tascam unplugged and powered down otherwise (and while it is unplugged I'd continue to use the Audigy for everything else, games and whatnot), right?

I believe you when you say it's easy enough to change the settings in Windows (is that in the BIOS or device manager or what?) but the only time I had anything that resembled two sound cards going at once was with a MB with onboard audio, and that fighting with the PCI sound card I'd tried to install ... I had to turn the onboard audio off in the BIOS in order to get the PCI card to work correctly ...

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

The Tascam comes with a firewire cable but yeah it's just that one cable into the comp.

It's just control panel-> sounds and audio devices to change between the two, no messing with the BIOS.

 

[treymonfauntre]

i have my computers basic sound card and cheesy computer speakers set as the default sound manager (for IM noises, internet videos, myspace streams, etc) and my interface/monitors set as the sound device in my music program and multitrack software
works out very nicely

 

[CDEFGAB]

I need to do better about checking prices at several stores before I write something off as being too expensive). Even that is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but from what I can tell so far that unit sure would seem to fit the bill for exactly what I'm looking for, filling many roles at once, without many -- if any -- obvious drawbacks. I'll post something to the specific area of this board about the Tascam and see if I can get some more feedback on it.



Check on Ebay. I have a brand new Tascam on there right now that I only used about 6 hours. Just like new, in the box at half the price. I've decided to go with a stand alone DAW instead of computer. The Tascam works great, just like they say. I just have to many other family members on the computer to be able to dedicate it to recording.