help a noob please

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onewayup

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this has been an extremely helpful website and i thank you all for posting such wonderful advice and for all the help/comments/etc... anyways, i've been interested in recording for sometime now but am only now able to get the equipment necessary. please tell me if i am missing anything or if you have any suggestions. i'm split between analog and digital so anything on your experience is appreciated.

for analog:
- portastudio 424mkiii
- sm 57/58 mics
- undecided for monitors as of now

for digital:
- ews 88 d digital audio soundcard
- sound forge
- sm 57/58 mics

any suggestions for preamps?

or can i combine both for the best of all possible worlds? not to sure.


it's late & i'm tired.
sorry if i forgot anything (above).

it may seem like i'm not interested or ready but i am.

thanks
- mike
 
I can only comment on the analog portion, but to start out with what you've listed is fine.

I might add that you can pick up a good condition used 488 MkII for about what you would spend for a new 424Mk III or less.

The only disadvantage to the 488 is that there are no direct tape track outs. It is still agood unit though. It uses the same head stack as the older 238 Syncaset

You may want to think about a good compressor and an effects box as well if you decide to go analog.


LONG LIVE ANALOG!
 
Hey there OneWayUp! Welcome to the site. :) Here's my 2 cents:

For digital recording, you're probably gonna want a preamp, unless you're using the digital only to transfer mixes from the Portastudio to the computer for CD burning. Pres go from the cheapo (Audio Buddy $80, Art "tube" studio $99) to thousands of $$$ per channel. Having not heard the built-in pres on your Portastudio, these options have a good chance of sounding better. You *could* use the Portastudio as a mic pre for digital recording, but your options and maybe the sound quality will be limited.

For digital recording, you're also probably gonna want multitrack software (your PC's "Portastudio"). This goes from free (ProTools Free) to cheap ($60 for ntrack) to thousands (regular ProTools)...

We can answer your questions better if you give us some more ifo.... such as your budget for possible upgrades and let us know what/how you're trying to record.
 
Casette recorders do not really count as the beautiful analog that everyone talks about. They sound like hissy crap. The only thing worse than a 4 track casette is an 8 track casette. You can get a much warmer sound out of a decent digital system than casette.

What kind of music are you doing? How many tracks do you want? How many tracks do you want to be able to record at once? Does it need to be portable? What is your budget?

Those are the important questions that would help determine what would work best for you.
 
my budget: ~$1000 but i'm flexable on it. i'm mainly into the metals, hardcore, and industrial so that's what i wish to record. i'll be recording each instrument 1 at a time. it does not need to be portable.
 
Remember though, even if you only do one part at a time you may want to use several tracks for that part. Stereo micing, drum machines, keys, etc. What are you planning on doing for drums?

Check out the Delta cards. They have a lot of options for different needs and budgets. I would definately recommend computer recording. I believe SoundForge is not a multitrack program but I could be mistaken. You might want to check out Ntracks or CoolEditPro.

You will also need a preamp or mixer for you mics. The DMP3 pre or a Mackie or Soundcraft M board are all good choices.
 
Weeell thanks for the encouragement there Tex!

I don't know what eight track cassette recorders you've listened to, but I know you have not heard any of my recordings from my recorder/system. The DBX does a fine job eliminating hiss on my recorder. It is nearly every bit as quiet as other professionally recorded analog. Now, I know I will not be able to convince you of that, but that's OK. I'll not try to.

Maybe the recordings you listened to were recorded by someone who did not know how to take advantage of the machine's capabilities and minimize its liabilities. There ARE a few of us around that can make excellent recordings on a cassette eight track using the correct techniques and not exceeding the limitations of the machine.

There are a few dinosaurs like me left in the world who prefer to record in analog, no matter what the humble means may be to the end.
 
I'm not saying you cant make good music on casette. But if you put that same effort into 24bit digital I bet you would be amazed. Cassette multitracks have a SNR around 79-80db and they roll of the highs at anywhere from 12-16k. That's just too limited for my taste.

Compare that to a SNR of over 100db and a frequency response up to 48khz with 24bit 96khz digital. The cost is not that much higher and to me the sound quality is light years ahead.

I dont want to discourage anyone from using the gear they have but if they are going to buy something then I just dont see the point in spending money on a format that isn't even considered suitable for consumer distribution anymore.

I'd love to hear your stuff. Maybe you can change my mind but I doubt it ;)
 
While it's true that the I/O's are within that range, the S/N ratio of the deck itself is 90-95dB with the DBX engaged.

The response starts to fall around 14K on my machine. I can't think of anything I record that has a frequency this high so I tend not to worry about that aspect of it.

A S/N ration of 100db would be nice to have but I don't think I could tell a 5 dB difference in any format.

Why is such a high response (up to 48KHz) so important? No one can hear sounds even close to that.

I do not dislike digital. I find that analog is more "user friendly".
I read about a lot of people having problems with this software or that. What plug-in do I use? Why isn't this (fill in the blank) working correctly? How come this is not compatible with my computer? Why can't I get my levels set up?

Your third reply to this topic was much easier to read than your first.

If you e-mail me your address I will send you a couple of tracks.
 
hold on there buckaroo...

you may not have any sounds with fundamentals above 14k but all your sounds have harmonic series that go way past that. the harmonics give the sound its timbre and since we can hear past 14k we want recorders to go there too. ideally of course. ability to record past 20k or 18.5k is the subject for debate!

the portastudios are fine to learn on and with proper strategy can sound excellent. the dbx noise reduction works extremely well especially if you boost your highs a little going in.

user friendliness is important when learning! audio software makes basic concepts harder to grasp than if you learn on analog hardware equipment.


:p
 
I understand about fundamental tones, harmonics, and timbres.

I guess that I have just been missing out on all of this high frequency overtone all of these years.

Using two different recordings of the same album, I can hear things on the CD that I cannot hear on the tape. This would be for a remaster from analog to digital, not originally recorded digitally.

Is this what you are talking about? In my above statement, I don't know how this could be though since the original medium was analog tape with its resultant limited response. How can a digital re-master of an analog recording squeeze anything more out of a recording that was not originally there to begin with?

I have been investigating moving into hard-disc recording, but the equipment choices, technical aspects, and compatibility issues have kept me from commiting. Besides, on a more emotional level, I think computers are a very cold and impersonal way to record something that is a very personal thing.

I'm also a real stubborn son-of-a-bitch.
 
Sennheiser said:
Is this what you are talking about? In my above statement, I don't know how this could be though since the original medium was analog tape with its resultant limited response. How can a digital re-master of an analog recording squeeze anything more out of a recording that was not originally there to begin with?
Click to expand...
I'm assuming you are talking about commercially released stuff? All analog tape does tape not have that bad of a response. Only casette. Pro analog formats can compete very well with digital. A 2" tape with Dolby SR is fantastic.

In regards to SNR I highly doubt any older casette deck comes anywhere near their published specs unless they have been routinely serviced. The 100db SNR in digital is just a starting point. With the right components you can easily go up to 115db.

I understand your emotional attachment to tape but to be honest I've never felt like a tape deck was anymore personable than a digital deck. If you have to have tape to make you feel better go with ADAT ;)

I'm afraid my email does not handle large files. You should setup a free account at www.nowhereradio.com so we can all enjoy your lush analog goodness.
 
I don't know how this could be though since the original medium was analog tape with its resultant limited response
Click to expand...
There is an enormous difference between pro 2" reels and a cassette based recording. I'm not dogging it, but I've used different Tascam 488's, and there's no comparison for overall sound quality. I'll never go back in a million years.

And, also in the defense of PC based recording, a lot of questions we see are for things that standalone casette units can't do without a large investment in outboard gear and all of their respective learning curves.

I will agree that they're simpler to use though. I miss the simplicity sometimes, but I look at what I can do now compared to then, and I don't miss it so much :D
 
theres a big diff betw an old fart switching from analog to computer and a complete noob starting on computer.

the noob is probly best off using default settings and presets as much as possible. parameters in software are just numbers and you dont get the instant results of knob turning.

i know in my sound forge if i want to change a parameter on the compression it has to make an "undo" then process then i can listen to it. if i want a little more i have to undo and then do the same crap again and i cant remember what the first one sounded like.

:p
 
Well, I think this old fart's best bet would be ADAT. it sounds like the best of both worlds for me.

Maybe next year. I get to use all of my rack gear and will upgrade to a new mixer and an Alesis tape machine.

Actually I meant you residential or business address. I'll send you a real tape.
 
Sennheiser said:
I'll send you a real tape.
Click to expand...
:confused: I have to go down to some antique store and buy a cassette deck just to listen to your music!!! ;) :D
 
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