Headphones for mixing.

[ebeam]

I'm with mixmkr. While mixing with headphone has obvious problems, there are some real advantages too. First and foremost is the fact that most people on this board don't have very good listening environments. Not only are there frequency related problems in most of our rooms (standing waves, etc), but there can be a LOT of timing related problems screwing with the stereo imaging. Also, if you record in different rooms frequently, a pair of headphones you know well can give you some sort of standard reference.

If you know your headphones well, I don't see how frequency response differences between phones and speakers are really an issue - its really the same thing as learning a new pair of monitors. At least when you walk around in your room with headphones on, the bass response doesn't change. Can't really say the same for speakers in a poorly designed/treated control room. The only major problem with mixing through headphones is the fact that you can't hear stereo accurately.

Anyway, I wouldn't mix ONLY with headphones, but I think having a nice pair around as a reference is a good idea.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Not only are there frequency related problems in most of our rooms (standing waves, etc), but there can be a LOT of timing related problems screwing with the stereo imaging.

....

If you know your headphones well, I don't see how frequency response differences between phones and speakers are really an issue...

I disagree.... in using headphones, both your sense of stereo imaging and frequency response change... imaging is exaggerated due to the isolation of one ear from the other, and frequency response gets skewed in the bass and mid-range areas due to the proximity of the drivers to the ear. So you can't be sure of the relative levels of frequencies in that area of the spectrum.

The only major problem with mixing through headphones is the fact that you can't hear stereo accurately.

Not quite - there's more.... same headphones, different people - not only is response and imaging skewed using headphones, but to make matters worse, each person hears differently from every other person when listening on cans. The reason for this is that the response of each person's cilia (the parts of the ear responsible for detecting different frequency vibrations) is unique to each individual. This is critical because it means that the same song, through the same phones, will sound different to each person that listens to it! And you thought translating mixes using monitors is tough!!! With headphones it's almost impossible because a well-balanced sound is a moving target from person to person!

 

[mixmkr]

Not quite - there's more.... same headphones, different people - not only is response and imaging skewed using headphones, but to make matters worse, each person hears differently from every other person when listening on cans. The reason for this is that the response of each person's cilia (the parts of the ear responsible for detecting different frequency vibrations) is unique to each individual. This is critical because it means that the same song, through the same phones, will sound different to each person that listens to it! And you thought translating mixes using monitors is tough!!! With headphones it's almost impossible because a well-balanced sound is a moving target from person to person!

I disagree that this is as critical as described. For one thing, if you have a knowledge of what your phones will do, what is exaggerated, etc, it doesn't matter. If you are able to come up with a finished product that translates ok on another medium, who cares if a set of headphones will sound different to another person? If it sounds muddy in the phones to someone else, it would potentially sound muddy on the speakers too. The difference of the sound of headphones from one person to the next is not nearly as great as simply turning your head to the side or moving 5 feet in the control room that uses speakers.

There will always be two sides of the fence on this and for those that headphones don't work and translate well for them would be advised not to use headphones. Some people in some cases don't have those limitations and can make adjustments. In some cases, the adjustments can be heard even better.
People thought no one could run a mile under 4 minutes or pole vault over 20 feet. Both "nearly" impossible tasks. But, people trained themselves to do it.

 

[FattMusiek]

Blue Bear beat me here once again and will forevermore to answer this question.

Anyhow, the answer is simply that you can't mix with headphones. Don't act a fool.

Hope I could be of service.

 

[mixmkr]

Blue Bear beat me here once again and will forevermore to answer this question.

Anyhow, the answer is simply that you can't mix with headphones. Don't act a fool.

Hope I could be of service.

There will always be two sides of the fence on this and for those that headphones don't work and translate well for them would be advised not to use headphones. Some people in some cases don't have those limitations and can make adjustments.

 

[ebeam]

I disagree.... in using headphones, both your sense of stereo imaging and frequency response change... imaging is exaggerated due to the isolation of one ear from the other, and frequency response gets skewed in the bass and mid-range areas due to the proximity of the drivers to the ear. So you can't be sure of the relative levels of frequencies in that area of the spectrum.



Not quite - there's more.... same headphones, different people - not only is response and imaging skewed using headphones, but to make matters worse, each person hears differently from every other person when listening on cans. The reason for this is that the response of each person's cilia (the parts of the ear responsible for detecting different frequency vibrations) is unique to each individual. This is critical because it means that the same song, through the same phones, will sound different to each person that listens to it! And you thought translating mixes using monitors is tough!!! With headphones it's almost impossible because a well-balanced sound is a moving target from person to person!

Well, mixmkr basically responded to this already, but anyhow.....

I agree that stereo imaging is effected and can't really be judged properly. But with both the frequency response changes due to proximity effects and different frequency response from person to person with the same phones, your arguments are not so solid. When we mix, we are judging frequency response (among many other things) to make sure that the mix translates well on all other systems, or hopefully most systems. As long as you know what a good mix sounds like on your headphones, you should be able to create a mix using those same headphones that translates well. I don't believe this is so esoteric.

As far as the other issue with different people hearing frequency response differently on the same pair of phones, who cares? Given the above, this is really moot since if you can create a mix that translates well, it doesn't matter. If I mix on monitors, that mix is going to sound different to different people on the same pair of headphones. So what? What I use to mix on won't change that.

Sorry if this seems like ranting. I'm just sick of all these supposed axioms of recording that everybody adopts and just throws around. Just remember that what works for you might not work for someone else. 'Best practices' are good to know, but who ever did anything unique or innovative by doing exactly what everyone else was doing? And the first rule of recording is 'there are no rules!'

 

[kylen]

Well all I can say is you just gotta use what's at your disposal to create the best mix or pre-master possible.

I've got headphones (sony mdr 7509) , nearfields (Alesis M1 powered), and various spectrum analyzers (with reference curves I like) that I actually mix or pre-master music into. I also have various audio reference material integrated into the project on a seperate track I can reference at the click of a mouse.

I listen and make final judgements on the stuff I just mentioned along with room monitors (radio shack), CD boombox, Truck F150 CD player, listen from the next room, hallway, home theater, etc.

So with headphones being a single tool in the larger picture I would say that I mix into headphones. Why do I use that tool ? When I want to hear detail or give my ears a breather from nearfields and get a different perspective. I don't believe I'd make a final decision concerning balance where EQ and dynamics are involved using headphones only. If I was bringing the overall volume of a mix up or down a few dB I might listen for distortion or something. I also like to use them to get a sanity check when putting reverb on something also so I can hear the sound when it first begins to 'reflect' a bit as I turn up the reverberated signal. Same thing for messing with the stereo field.

Headphones are an important part of the big picture for me.

kylen