Headphones for mixing.

avedic

New member
Here's the deal: I'm recording into CEP and right now my setup is pretty nice. I really like what I'm getting. However, due to my $ situation and the proximity of neighbors, I can't really mix on moniters. I have been using some really cheap($20) headphones. I know these headphone very well, but when I burnt some demos to a CD I realized that all my mixes were too heavy in the mid-range.

So, my question is: Do any of you know of some good headphones for mixing? Something that gives you a totally flat output and can handle very deep and very crisp sounds. At the very most I have $200 to spend, although I don't really want to get that high. I only need these headphones for listening purposes. I don't need any microphone combo, eq levels on the earpiece, super turbo cushioned foam, or anything fancy. I just need something that delivers very accurate sound.

Any ideas?
 
Any ideas?
Yes, save your money. Can't be done using headphones. They provide a different listening envornment than most listeners will encounter when playing the CD.

You can use headphones for certain decisions in the mixing process (e.g., isolating clicks or pops) but they just won't work for other decisions, like panning or eq.
 
Um, that's not true. I've heard mixes done on headphones only that were better than alot of stuff mixed "properly".

Like I said, due to where I live I simply must use headphones. I'm not going to give all this up and 'save my money' because headphones simply will never work in any situation no matter what, period.

I'm not looking to create the best mix on earth. I tend to like albums that aren't 'perfect'. Listen to Tool's "Aenima". Almost everything is panned right down the center, there's very little multi-tracking, the guitars are abrasive, and the mix is muddy at times. But despite that, it's one of the best albums I've ever heard. Perfect sound quality is sometimes worse than simply producing with the simple goal of capturing the music in it's element.
 
ok but even with very thin walls you must be able to make SOME noise.
have you considered a pair of small near fields, they aren't necessarily expensive and allow you to work at relatively low volumes.
i'm not an expert at all but have experienced that cans give a wrong representation of the mix.

btw the stuff you say about sound quality and all that may be true (one of my favorite rock albums is exile on main street by the stones - not exactly an example of a crystal clear sound) but that doesn't mean that to achieve such a sound you have to use inferior gear.
 
Ok. You've sold me. I've looked around and it seems everyone is gushing over the "Alesis M1 Active MKII". Plus the price is low enough that I can stop eating lunch and be able to purchase it. From what I've seen it appears to fit what I need perfectly.

any comments?
 
avedic said:
I've looked around and it seems everyone is gushing over the "Alesis M1 Active MKII".
I've never seen or heard anyone "gush" over ANY Alesis monitors - they're not exactly well-received....

Look into Yorkville YSM1P for excellent monitor value for your money....
 
I always check my mixes with cans, but they're only one of my references. I also use three different pairs of speakers.

As for mixing exclusively on cans, sure if you only want your mix to sound good on cans like the ones you have. Same issue as mixing on home stereo speakers.

That said I recently picked up a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 pro's. A/B'd 'em with the Sony's in the same price range (under $200), and the Senns sounded much more balanced to my ears. The Sony's have too much hype on the bottom for me.

As always, YMMV so listen, and decide for yourself.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
I've never seen or heard anyone "gush" over ANY Alesis monitors - they're not exactly well-received....

Look into Yorkville YSM1P for excellent monitor value for your money....

I've seen nothing but good reviews for those Alesis monitors.
If you look around you can find negative reviews for everything.
 
You can't mix with headphones and many would argue that you should not track with $20 headphones. Do yourself a favor and spend $100 on a nice pair of headphones. My vote: Sony MDR-7506.
 
If I'm going to buy anything for $100 it better be something I can mix with. I'd rather save my money on monitors.
 
avedic said:
I've seen nothing but good reviews for those Alesis monitors.
If you look around you can find negative reviews for everything.
I've compared many monitors side-by-side, friend.... I don't need reviews to tell me that Alesis monitors don't rate - I've heard them first-hand....
 
what on earth am I supposed to do then???? Everyone has their own dogmatic opinion on every product out there. I can find negative and praise reviews for anything.

I simply need very good monitors that are no more than $400.

Nothing more.
 
To select monitors, you have to get out there and compare and listen...... that's the ONLY way to decide -- regardless of what I and other say....

If Alesis monitors sound good to your ears, then so be it, get them and use them!

(But - keep in mind that your ears may not know what to look for, so if you're getting a few hints in a particular direction, then you should at least compare those too....)
 
one of the problems I've seen with Alesis monitors is that the tweeter likes to vaporize if you just sneeze. To many monitors made by them seem to fail awfully easy. The cheapie monitors ones by Alesis are "ok" if can pick up a pair for zilch...but don't expect them to really last because of their durabilty. The monitor 2's are just a bigger version, same problems (not to mention a lousy low end reproduction), and for that price range, there IS much better to be had. I'd get yourself a pair of $75 Auratone cubes [used] somewhere before I'd get some of these "bargin" nearfield monitors... ..and Auratones are supposed to simulate a TV speaker!..but actually sound pretty good for what they are...and you can't get much smaller. I don't think they are made anymore, but awhile back, you saw them sitting on the meter bridges of just about ALL the studios on the planet. They are great for "checking" mixes and I even think for checking bass volume and stuff like that. They are really kinda supprising speakers for what they are. But then, many will say they sound like crap like the popular Yamaha NS10 speakers. (I had a pair just long enough to realize I REALLY didn't like them though, unlike my Auratones).

As far as headphones for mixing. I've done a fair amount of it myself and have gotten results that were acceptable enough to me. I use the [bass heavy] Sony MDR7506 phones mentioned above for $100 at any decent store. Do I mix better with speakers...?..in most cases yes, but I HAVE done some mixes I thought worked out OK with just using the cans. I know many disagree with mixing soley on cans, but I feel I know the sound of the MDR7506 pretty well at this point (infact I have a half dozen pairs and one pair is a definate favorite over the others...no one touches them but me!), just like I know my speakers. I have probably about $3500 wrapped up in my speakers if you were to replace them, and I think that the Sony headphones do the best job of emulating them. Infact, I like using the headphones for hearing noise problems, editing and stuff like that OVER the speakers. But, sitting in the sweet spot of my speakers by far is better if I had to choose...mainly because it makes it MUCH easier to make mixes that translate well over other systems. Also...being the rookie I am!!!... I like to use A LOT of reverb on many of my mixes..and it is much easier to make decisions on speakers with the amount of reverb. If I am just recording some synthsizer tracks and DI guitars, etc...that stuff is pretty much just samples anyway, and much of the "critical" decisions have been made as far as sound....to SOME degree. I can lather a solo instrument with a reverb in the cans and it will sound great...but the speakers say....eh...no no!!

If you only have a couple bucks and MUST use headphones, (because of neighbors, late night recording..etc) just realize the limitations, but don't think you can't to use them to get decent mixes. VERY finished mixes...that's another subject. Go to your local Guitar Center (or wherever!) and try a couple pairs and see what you like best... About 75% of the people seem to favor the $100 Sonys it appears for THAT price range. Anything cheaper, you might as well buy another set at Radio Shack for $25 that sounds better than your current ones.

But...take your ears...something you've recorded if you can, a favorite CD, and see if you can listen thru a variety of things with these sources. It may be an eye opening (and ears too!) moment for you.
 
avedic said:
what on earth am I supposed to do then???? Everyone has their own dogmatic opinion on every product out there. I can find negative and praise reviews for anything.

I simply need very good monitors that are no more than $400.

Nothing more.
Nothing wrong with using reviews to narrow your search - particularly if the reviews are from reliable sources. However, I wouldn't use a review to narrow my selection down to just one brand or model, as you seem to have done with the Alesis'.

Find 3 or 4 (or more) different models in your price range that are getting pretty good reviews, and then go to your local Guitar Center (or whatever) and A/B them side-by-side. Make sure to bring along CD’s of material that you are very familiar with. And be forewarned, decent monitors are going to sound quite different than your basic stereo system. Don’t be looking for something that sounds good. Rather look for the ones that allow you to hear what is going on in the mix.

Also, in your price range you are likely to be seeing mostly 5” or 6” woofers. So understand you are not going to get good bass response. (I have 8” Event 20/20’s and the bass is still a problem). Unfortunately that’s the nature of the beast, and you hopefully learn to compensate for it. In your case the bass problem will be compounded by having to listen to them at low volumes.

I’m not trying to discourage you. Even with these problems, you’ll be light years ahead of cans.
 
mixmkr said:
Go to your local Guitar Center (or wherever!) and try a couple pairs and see what you like best

But...take your ears...something you've recorded if you can, a favorite CD, and see if you can listen thru a variety of things with these sources.


dachay2tnr said:


Find 3 or 4 (or more) different models in your price range that are getting pretty good reviews, and then go to your local Guitar Center (or whatever) and A/B them side-by-side. Make sure to bring along CD’s of material that you are very familiar with.

ya know...and I don't even really like Guitar Center...!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Ah, the old simultaneous post problem. :D

At least we gave him similar advice (if you ignore the mixing on headphones issue for the moment :rolleyes: ).

I'm also not a big fan of Guitar Center. I prefer buying online - but some things you just have to go and hear. And for those things, I prefer GC hands down over Sam Ash, which is the other major outlet in my area.
 
ya know....mixing on headphones is pretty much NOT generally accepted. But I think the point that you "can" do a mix with phones is very real. I am not going to debate the quality of mixes.. BUT...like many topics on this board, there seems to be many things you CAN'T do...but in the HOME environment, for the person that wants a GOOD mix...and not nec. a GREAT mix, solutions like headphones for mixing is just fine. I believe that most people [new to recording or the general home amatuer]have bigger issues of just hearing things and playing properly as compared to whether they can use headphones or not to mix. It is kinda like saying, you can't use those cheapie Yorkvilles, or those Tannoys to make a GREAT mix, but you CAN certainly do a good mix with them... Good enough to present to the mp3clinic without unending critisism and certainly good enough to play for friends and the like.
At the most popular level of abilities that seems to show itself in these forums, I think using phones for mixing, cheap mic cables, behringer mixers, squire guitars...all that stuff...is just fine. If you want to do the BEST you can do and feel limited by the equipment, then by all means, upgrade to your wallets content. The Mackie 1202 is really a pretty shitty mixer, but there has been some great stuff recorded thru that little POS that was MUSIC and not just a RECORDING.

I have spent waaay too much money on equipment in the past, and have since scaled it down to a computer and a bunch of "toys" at this point, and couldn't be happier with the results I am getting. Is it pro quality??...probably not, but certainly I feel it holds its own to most stuff heard around here. So... a scale back from what would be most people's house mortage to just a room full of instruments and a couple computers hasn't really affected the quality of my recordings. But..., I can't handle 25 mics at once anymore either!!:( That's ok... I don't want to particularly deal with 8 people sitting in my control room either all offering suggestions either.

So...for all the naysayers... If YOU can't do it, don't expect that the next person is unable to do it either. I have posted too many mixes in the MP3clinic here done on headphones, and that NEVER seemed to be an issue. Did it sound like Alan Parsons, Steely Dan or Pink Floyd...? not on your life...but good enough to slap on the internet and be respectable.
 
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