muttley600
Banned
Music always got in the way of my drug taking so I quit.
Have drugs ever enhanced your creativity as a songwriter or player ?
PDP
There once was a note
Heroin addiction, crack addiction, 95% of every domestic abuse and criminal activity is related to alcohol and drug addiction. 95% of the prison population in the US are Alcoholics.
PDP
There once was a note
The reason it appears these super creative people seem to benefit from taking drugs is because "street drugs" treat mental illness "better" than FDA approved drugs. The problem is they don't last and aren't safe, but for a period the addict feels "cured" and much of their best work/production comes out.
Pete Townsend, Eric Clapton, George Harrison, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards all did great music after putting down the drugs. One last thought: most will tell you they were not waisted during most of their greatest work anyway.
guitarpat
New member
Drugs don't have an effect of what I knew I said or was thinking if ever I do can I see and when ever it happens I only end up not making sense in my posts lol (joking of course)
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Firstly, is that a fact ? 95% ?
Secondly, I don't understand what you're saying. You quote dainbramage's question then follow with what appear to be answers. Are you saying that drug addiction is a mental illness per se ?
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
absolutely no chance whatsoever that that's true.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
I wasn't sure what that post was about either. The numbers seem made up.
Prison is certainly a great place to learn how to become a criminal if nothing else I guess. Since the mere possession of illegal drugs has to be considered criminal activity, 100% of that crime is obviously drug related. This would skew any stats quite a bit.
The distinction between legal and illegal drugs seems largely arbitrary. Having not so much to do with health or public safety and more to do with money and long standing cultural and racial divides.
Prison is certainly a great place to learn how to become a criminal if nothing else I guess. Since the mere possession of illegal drugs has to be considered criminal activity, 100% of that crime is obviously drug related. This would skew any stats quite a bit.
The distinction between legal and illegal drugs seems largely arbitrary. Having not so much to do with health or public safety and more to do with money and long standing cultural and racial divides.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
oh, you can look back on the history of it and it's very clear that certain drugs were made illegal primarily to have a way to control certain racial segments of the populace who were perceived to use a particular drug. opium, for example, was made illegal so they could go after the Chinese who, at that time, were taking lots of jobs from Amuricans.
PDP
There once was a note
Yes addiction and alcoholism are an illness, my quote of 95% is not a fact I can prove. However talk to anyone who works in the prison system and they will tell you, the amount of inmates that don't have an addiction is about the same as those that are innocent.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Keith Richards was on various drugs from 1964 till at least the mid 89s if not beyond. Trust me, most of his greatest work was while he was on drugs ! Now, that might be coincidental but it remains.
Most of Harrison and Clapton's best stuff came in the period that they were drug users. As did some of their worst. Whether there is a connection between good creativity/playing and drug usage is hard to say on a general level, hence the OP being about personal thoughts on one's experiences.
The problem here is the concept of "wasted."
What the hell does it mean ? It's a sensationalist word that doesn't really mean anything. It conjours up vague imagery in our minds but if you pin it down, doesn't tell you anything. Few people are ever so "out of it" "at every moment" that they can't function. So it doesn't necessarily follow that a serious drug addict is unable to write, play and record songs and good ones too.
What does that actually mean ? How do street drugs treat mental illness better than FDA approved ones ?
You seem to have settled on the notion that there is a huge percentage of creative artists with mental illness, who are aware of their condition and take various illegal drugs to deal with their condition.
That's pretty fanciful.
While I'd agree that beforehand few people would choose to mix heroin pills with water out of a just used toilet in order to shoot up or sell their backside or frontispiece to fund their habit, let's not be naive about the plenty, plenty reasons why a person gets into any drug in the first place and why one may continue in such.
It's too complex to wrap up in a fancy soundbite.
On the other hand some people simply like drugs !
This was precisely the argument many "moralists" who have been pilloried ever since the 50s and 60s, had with the pop stars that were advocating drug use and the legalization of drugs.
Joe Perry of Aerosmith made the observation that after the "Rocks" LP was a big hit and the money started rolling in, the band were able to afford better quality drugs. Keith Richards said moreorless the same thing when the hits started to happen. George Harrison observed in the aftermath of the Stones' infamous 1967 drug trial, that if Mick Jagger had gone to jail for drugs he would have been the best person it could have happened to because he was young and successful and rich.
Circumstance and situation can play a great part how one fares in the drug stakes. As can individual constitution. For every Keith Richards, Slash, Ozzy Osbourne or Tommy Lee, there's not only a Johnny Thunders, Sid vicious, Syd Barrett or Frankie Lymon, there's thousands of dead or dying or hopelessly messed up unknowns who followed the example of those that profess 'freedom' in the music biz.
That's the thing though. Having known junkies who developed habits they couldn't break, I come to the conclusion that few, if any, ever think they'll end up that way. How many guys honestly think they're seriously likely to have stomach cramps worse than pregnancy coz they can't get their stuff ? Or think they might lose their cars or property to a dealer ? Or honestly think they'll try to persuade their wife/daughter/girlfriend to prostitute themselves to earn a few quid for that next shot ? This ain't Robert Redford offering a million dollars for an indecent proposal !
Truth is, most people that do drugs of any description don't end up there.
So while I agree that it's crucial to see the downside and I wouldn't recommend using drugs because people are all so different and you never know how any individual will respond or at which point it might start going downhill, it would be foolhardy of me to pretend that there are people that have not benefitted at some point because as I said earlier, the weight of evidence to the contrary is too heavy to ignore or dismiss.
dragonworks
Banned
I can say that when I smoke I enjoy playing more, but, I highly doubt it helps my playing ability any.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
If it's a fact, how can you not prove it ? How do you know it's a fact ?
I guess that's thread in itself. I think the matter is far too nuanced to state that as an absolute .
jigfresh
Enjoying life
Wow guy, did I ever say I was a rock god, or that I thought doing drugs was the road to becoming a great musician? I simply pointed out that there are people in this world who have been heavy drug users and have had their art elevated by the substances they chose to use. No one is advocating drug use. And no one is saying junkies are good at anything. What are you reading?
Nearly everyone would agree that drugs are in varying levels harmful to ones body. But why all the morality associated with this question? I guess to some drugs are from the devil. Just like foosball.
And I don't understand all the hostility and name calling. Halfassed fucking hippies? Frat pussies?
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
That's one of the ways Greg expresses himself and if you dare react, you'll be told to calm down for this is the internet and they're only words on a screen. Greg likes to get a rise out of people and he knows that many will react to almost anything he says that isn't in keeping with what they'd like to hear.
If I were in your shoes, I'd separate the sentiment from the words because you can't win by adverserial means. Even if they're not meant, there's often some interesting points that his words give rise to or shine a light on and they can be used to further good discussion.
The music biz learned pretty early on that the way to get anywhere with with those taking an adverserial, cynical stance was to subsume and market them. It was a tacit admission that they had their uses.........
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Why not, if that's how a person feels ?
fritsthegirl
Taste of home
Taking drugs is like going on a rollercoaster. It's fun to do once in a while, and it might even do you some good. But it really sucks if you're stuck on it and find yourself going on the same ride time and time again.
There are some rock gods that took a lot of drugs, but I think when their drug taking got to a stage where they couldn't stop, the cameras stopped filming and the tape stopped recording. I've seen a few interviews with ex-wives and children that saw the not so cool side of the drug and alcohol coin.
I don't think drugs make me more creative. I'm just as bad when I'm sober as I am drunk or high. Possibly more repetitive and annoying. Not to me, but to others.
In moderation and experimentation, sure, drugs are OK. But if you're already a bit of a case and you take too much too often, the glamour wears thin real fast.
There are some rock gods that took a lot of drugs, but I think when their drug taking got to a stage where they couldn't stop, the cameras stopped filming and the tape stopped recording. I've seen a few interviews with ex-wives and children that saw the not so cool side of the drug and alcohol coin.
I don't think drugs make me more creative. I'm just as bad when I'm sober as I am drunk or high. Possibly more repetitive and annoying. Not to me, but to others.
In moderation and experimentation, sure, drugs are OK. But if you're already a bit of a case and you take too much too often, the glamour wears thin real fast.
jigfresh
Enjoying life
I'm not saying it's not allowed... I'm seriously asking. Why the morality associated? Honest question. I suppose my comment that followed undermined the ability for someone to answer safely as I had taken an adversarial stance. Can you tell I get riled up?
I took a look over his posts and found the beam of light that is our friend. I'm thankful for the ignore feature on these forums.
I took a look over his posts and found the beam of light that is our friend. I'm thankful for the ignore feature on these forums.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
I don't want to get too far into this (famous last words), but...
Most people do not deliberately choose to self-medicate in the sense of "I'm suffering from x and y will help." In fact, most are completely unaware that they suffer from mental illness, and most don't really take drugs to make anything better. They try it for any of the reasons that anybody tries anything, and then start down the road toward addiction. An outside observer can recognize the symptoms and the self-medicating behavior (really a symptom in itself) but the subjects themselves pretty much just do it cause that's what they do.
That said, I happen to be one of the "lucky" few who is actually aware of my imbalances, spent years working within the system with disappointing (and, yes, life threatening) results until I finally found the "program" that works for me.
Opioids are a different deal of course. Most of the humans on the planet are basically born addicted to the stuff. Many are lucky enough to avoid enough exposure to develop full on addiction, but the potential is there for all of us. I have to say, though, that any time I was actually high on opioids I had no interest in doing anything at all other than laying around high on opioids. I can't imagine how any of these junkie legends stood up, let alone played anything anybody would want to hear. Between shots maybe...
Most people do not deliberately choose to self-medicate in the sense of "I'm suffering from x and y will help." In fact, most are completely unaware that they suffer from mental illness, and most don't really take drugs to make anything better. They try it for any of the reasons that anybody tries anything, and then start down the road toward addiction. An outside observer can recognize the symptoms and the self-medicating behavior (really a symptom in itself) but the subjects themselves pretty much just do it cause that's what they do.
That said, I happen to be one of the "lucky" few who is actually aware of my imbalances, spent years working within the system with disappointing (and, yes, life threatening) results until I finally found the "program" that works for me.
Opioids are a different deal of course. Most of the humans on the planet are basically born addicted to the stuff. Many are lucky enough to avoid enough exposure to develop full on addiction, but the potential is there for all of us. I have to say, though, that any time I was actually high on opioids I had no interest in doing anything at all other than laying around high on opioids. I can't imagine how any of these junkie legends stood up, let alone played anything anybody would want to hear. Between shots maybe...
dainbramage
Well-known member
You believe those "I was only going to try it once" ads you probably have in the US like we do over here? I know many people who have done meth, coke and heroin and none of them have become junkies. They live healthy lives, full time employed and all that. You don't hear about those people in the news you know. They're not even part of statistics because almost nobody knows about it. How could they? I am sure nobody in their wildest dreams would imagine some of the people who do hard drugs actually do hard drugs from time to time. Addiction is so much more than just the chemical/plant itself.
Bottom line is most people who use hard drugs will never become addicts. If, hypothetically speaking, every person who had used hard drugs suddenly turned blue, people would be shocked.