Has anyone tried submitting a song to a publisher?

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Rodeo

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Hey all
I'm wondering whether anyone here has ever taken that leap of faith and worked up the courage to send in something to one of these bigshot companies. Is it really for anybody to send stuff in, if you think you've got something they want? It seems like the preference is for 'experienced' songwriters, yet of course theres the old 'how do you get experience' paradox. Do you think a lot of 'ordinary people' just send stuff in?
 
Yes, tried, failed, and it's a bitch.

I will give you the Nashville perspective. I'm sure it's similar in other music centers as well.

Large publishers will not generally accept unsolicited submissions. For you to get your stuff in the door you need to have an "in" somewhere. That's where networking comes in (at least here in Nashville). You start getting out in the songwriter community and making contacts, co-writing with others etc. One of them gets an "in" and brings some of your co-written stuff with you kind of get an "in" of your own.

There are also second tier publishers. Those with some success under their belts but who have not made it big time yet. These are the folks that do well by us newbies comparatively. They have smaller catelogue and your song is less likely to get buried in gigantic catalogue like the biggies have. These guys also tend to work harder for you if they believe in your work.

It also doesn't hurt to join a songwriters organization. There are a bunch of them out there. I belong to the NSAI since I am in Nashville and am mainly in to Country Music. They can give you good advice on how to submit songs. There are, after all, rules to this game and it's good to know them before you start shotgunning your stuff all over creation and pissing people off. One good book to find is called "The Songwriter's Market" (I think - I haven't looked at mine for awhile). This is published each year and has listings of publishers in all areas of the country. It's good resource.

I would suggest you start doing a little homework on how the system works in the area of music you are interested in. Start networking and collaborating with other songwriters.

I have had an offer of a one song publishing deal. I almost signed and was advised to hang on to my song. The publisher I almost signed with had a reputation of being a tad on the shady side and has not had any major successes. This is where the professional organization (NSAI) came to my rescue. Then on the other hand, if you have the best song in the world and never let it go to anyone, it will never make you any money. Confusing, I know :D.

Anyway, that was kind of a breif overview of what I know. If you have any more specific questions fire away. Someone around here will probably have an answer.

Good luck dude!! :)
 
Hey Jagular
Good advice - thanks for spending time to reply on your experiences and thoughts.
For better or worse I actually live in Australia, so I'm not aware of a similar publication dealing with the Australian market/songwriting community. Furthermore my city's well known for being the cradle of bands rather than songwriters, and I assume the Australian songwriting community is largely if not completely in Sydney.
But I'm doing a lot of reading on the net, especially tips on submission etc, and I've also researched general Australian practices and standards in this regard, as well as basic legal considerations.
I think for me the best deal might be to, once in the distant future I have finally got up to scratch the one or two tracks I would want to send, I would pre-contact the bigger, non-dodgy companies and ascertain what process unsolicited submissions can take, if at all (I read on one source, about Australia anyway, that if you ring and ask them they might tell you you can send something in, just as long as you follow a b c steps).
Anyway its all down the track. Thanks for your insight - "its a bitch"! lol I can imagine.
 
Jagular provided good info!

It is much harder now to get published then it use to be. Very few publishers will accept unsolicited material.

I agree joining some of the organizations can be helpful - in particular if you can attend the various workshops they offer. The Nashville association is a good organization - but all the clinics etc are normally in that area (for obvious reasons).

There are a couple of songwritter magazines (just like there are guitar magazines and recording magazines) that have interesting articles and always have information on the various organizations.

I don't know if Australia has any main music cities (USA has LA New York, Nashville, etc.) but obviously the bigger the city the beter the chance for networking.

Be very careful of" song sharks" or anyone who offers to publish or record your material for a fee. Read some of the posts on this board related to Taxi and other "groups" to get a feel for wat other writers think.
 
Thanks mikeh -
mikeh said:
Be very careful of" song sharks" or anyone who offers to publish or record your material for a fee. Read some of the posts on this board related to Taxi and other "groups" to get a feel for wat other writers think.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been following that Taxi discussion. I definitely will try somehow to get a shoe in into the more reputable outfits at first. I'm thinking there's pros and cons to being a songwriter wanting to get published in Australia, but hopefully one of the pros is that unlike latter-day USA it's still possible to somehow get your material through to bigger ears even without solicitation per se.
 
Rodeo said:
Thanks mikeh -


Yeah I've been following that Taxi discussion. I definitely will try somehow to get a shoe in into the more reputable outfits at first. I'm thinking there's pros and cons to being a songwriter wanting to get published in Australia, but hopefully one of the pros is that unlike latter-day USA it's still possible to somehow get your material through to bigger ears even without solicitation per se.
Click to expand...

You may be correct there :)
 
I pretty much agree with everything Jagular has said. I worked for several years as staff writer with a medium-sized music publisher. It was pretty much a development deal and I didn't develop the way they hoped, so I was cut loose. It was a good experience, but one I'm not anxious to repeat.

I've signed a number of songs to smaller publishers over the years, but have never been able to get a foot in any of the majors. I have friends and co-writers who have had fairly good luck, but they write radio music and they are very, very good writers.

I'm a firm believer that a good way for writers to go now is to work with the smaller publishers, managers and producers who have young acts they are trying to break. It is incredibly difficult to get the attention of music publishers in music centers unless you have some kind of success to show them - some kind of track record. But, right now songwriting is not a profession you would want anyone you care about to start out in. But, if you are a songwriter, you're going to try, no matter what anyone says.
 
Thanks Peter D -

Peter D said:
I'm a firm believer that a good way for writers to go now is to work with the smaller publishers, managers and producers who have young acts they are trying to break. It is incredibly difficult to get the attention of music publishers in music centers unless you have some kind of success to show them - some kind of track record.
Click to expand...
I appreciate that advice.
Hah - "track record" - no pun I'm intended I'm sure.
 
Hi there!

I agree with both Jag and Peter D's comments on this. NSAI is a great place to go to learn about the music biz in Nashville. It also offers a critique service by industry professionals and an opportunity to have your song submissions presented for review to record label execs.

I am currently working with a smaller Nashville Publisher who not only offers publishing services, but the also have plugging services and they offer a songwriter coaching service which is designed to help develop your song writing skills to a professional level. What better place to have your songs critiqued than with a song plugger? These guys get paid to know what sucks and what sells!

While I can't say I've got any cuts yet my song writing has improved greatly since I have signed on with this publisher.

Limoguy
 
limoguy,
Did you submit to this publisher? Was it pre-solicited? Was any money exchanged for these services they offer? Just curious, please expand your post a little.


bd
 
Hey BD

I intentionally left out some of the details of my last post because I didn't want it to be construed that I was "spamming" here in this forum. If you are interested in the name of the publisher you are welcome to email me and I will gladly give it to you.

Yes, I have submitted material to this publisher. I first contacted them through their web site. But I also checked them out thoroughly before I did.

Yes, I am paying them but before all the nay Sayers pipe up let me at least explain my philosophy about this. The fee is very small.

If I want to get an honest critique from people on my songs, I think it is important to get a professional opinion from someone who works in the business. These people pitch songs to record label executives every day and they know what songs are worth cutting and what ones aren't. It's their business to know.

The arrangement I have with this publisher is a 6 month contract which involves my submitting songs for review. They in turn critique my songs, offer me advice about how to develop the lyrics to a level where the songs have publishing potential. Once my songs reach that level, they handle the publishing, record demos, and pitching for me .

I realize there is a disparity of views on the merits of paying someone to "pitch" your songs. Some people do and some don't.
The way I view this is I don't want to spend the next five years banging my head against a wall trying to learn the subtle nuances involved in doing this, I would rather let someone with that knowledge do it for me. My job is to write great songs!

I'm not looking at a shortcut or fast track answer to all the things I need to do, I simply want to maximize the efficiency of my time and efforts.

The other thing is that networking is a huge thing in this business and it's important for me to establish relationships with key people who can help me in my efforts. I know other published writers who have cuts, who are using this publisher and they seem to be happy with them.

Based on the relationship so far, I am happy with the value of the service I am receiving. As I stated before, my song writing skill has developed very quickly to a level where it looks like I have at least three songs that are going to get cut and I only started out with all this last august!

Limoguy
 
I have sent several in to publishers and labels.. and I have had small successes .. I have had 3 songs put on hold.. but getting past that point is a little harder, without access to the artist... -sigh

that is where I am now .. trying to gain access to the artists and selling to them instead of going through the midlemen .. I am told that if you can get to the manager of the artist you can get in the door so to speak ...

Lana
 
Those are interesting perspectives - thanks Lana and limoguy
 
Lana,

I wish you good luck with your success trying to by-pass the middleman! If you're lucky enough to be able to do that you'll be ahead of the rest of us!!

Limoguy
 
Limoguy,
I took the time to do my homework.
You should be ok. Again, be careful my friend. The fact that Lana went right to the source, sidestepping the "middleman" means she avoided a lot of sharks. A lot of people new to this business are prone to just pick up the rocks without first checking for snakes.


bd
 
Hey BD,

I applaud Lana is she is able to do that! I think it's great. Thanks for your view on this. I know I'm kinda "wingin it" here with that publisher but I have a good feeling about this. I'll let you know what becomes of it as time goes on.

I hate snake bites :-)

Limoguy
 
limoguy said:
Hey BD,

I applaud Lana is she is able to do that! I think it's great. Thanks for your view on this. I know I'm kinda "wingin it" here with that publisher but I have a good feeling about this. I'll let you know what becomes of it as time goes on.

I hate snake bites :-)

Limoguy
Click to expand...

I would appreciate being updated on your progress as well if you wouldn't mind :)
 
Jag,

I will keep you informed as well! I ain't foolin around with this so I intend to get my money's worth out of the deal. So fars...so good!

Limoguy
 
Jagular said:
Yes, tried, failed, and it's a bitch.

I will give you the Nashville perspective. I'm sure it's similar in other music centers as well.

Large publishers will not generally accept unsolicited submissions. For you to get your stuff in the door you need to have an "in" somewhere. That's where networking comes in (at least here in Nashville). You start getting out in the songwriter community and making contacts, co-writing with others etc. One of them gets an "in" and brings some of your co-written stuff with you kind of get an "in" of your own.

There are also second tier publishers. Those with some success under their belts but who have not made it big time yet. These are the folks that do well by us newbies comparatively. They have smaller catelogue and your song is less likely to get buried in gigantic catalogue like the biggies have. These guys also tend to work harder for you if they believe in your work.

It also doesn't hurt to join a songwriters organization. There are a bunch of them out there. I belong to the NSAI since I am in Nashville and am mainly in to Country Music. They can give you good advice on how to submit songs. There are, after all, rules to this game and it's good to know them before you start shotgunning your stuff all over creation and pissing people off. One good book to find is called "The Songwriter's Market" (I think - I haven't looked at mine for awhile). This is published each year and has listings of publishers in all areas of the country. It's good resource.

I would suggest you start doing a little homework on how the system works in the area of music you are interested in. Start networking and collaborating with other songwriters.

I have had an offer of a one song publishing deal. I almost signed and was advised to hang on to my song. The publisher I almost signed with had a reputation of being a tad on the shady side and has not had any major successes. This is where the professional organization (NSAI) came to my rescue. Then on the other hand, if you have the best song in the world and never let it go to anyone, it will never make you any money. Confusing, I know :D.

Anyway, that was kind of a breif overview of what I know. If you have any more specific questions fire away. Someone around here will probably have an answer.

Good luck dude!! :)
Click to expand...

MMmaann does this bring back bad memories... This is all so damn true.. I spent two years of hell in Nashville drinking and writing and drinking and writing and getting rejected.. I could have never made it there I now know because of the Pop songs they are writing down there.. I am glad to be home..
 
Scott,
I've heard your stuff, you should never give up. I can't play "can't live without you" any more because I catch myself singing it, humming it....whatever.......for days. That, my friend is a VERY good song.



bd
 
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