D
dj Happee
New member
i was thinkin of gettin myself one. If anyone has used this Sonic Maximizer, or know of it, give me a personal opinion on it! Thanks.
dj Happee www.theVirtuosos.com
dj Happee www.theVirtuosos.com
E
E-NICE
New member
Hey I don't have a BBE sonic maximizer but I
have heard good things about it. And since you are a DJ I suggest you to buy one. Either the 462 or the 862.
PEACE!!
have heard good things about it. And since you are a DJ I suggest you to buy one. Either the 462 or the 862.
PEACE!!
S
Singking
New member
Happee..
I do both live sound and DJ work and have have a BBE 422 in my rack for a few years. I like what it does. You can go to their website http://bbe.com and even download the owner's manual. It will give you a great idea of the concept and how is works. One suggestion that I have is that if you run a bi-amped system - don't run the subs through the unit - you're crossover will take care and keep things sonically separated. This unit goes in-line after your mixer before eq, compressor or anything. Also, look for a used one on e-bay it will save you a few bucks - you can usually get one for around a c-note.
Bob
I do both live sound and DJ work and have have a BBE 422 in my rack for a few years. I like what it does. You can go to their website http://bbe.com and even download the owner's manual. It will give you a great idea of the concept and how is works. One suggestion that I have is that if you run a bi-amped system - don't run the subs through the unit - you're crossover will take care and keep things sonically separated. This unit goes in-line after your mixer before eq, compressor or anything. Also, look for a used one on e-bay it will save you a few bucks - you can usually get one for around a c-note.
Bob
F
fendermustang
New member
C
CJWalker
Member
I own a BBE 862 (w/XLR & TRS) and I absolutely love it! Just be careful not to crank it or you'll get distortion. I plan to buy a couple for use on different instuments.
D
dj Happee
New member
what exactly does the Maximizer do? can i get the same results by boosting my EQ levels up a notch? I know its a stupid question...but i really have to know. thanks..
PS. does anyone have a copy Cubase VST i can copy?? i'll trade some of my software for it. thanks.
PS. does anyone have a copy Cubase VST i can copy?? i'll trade some of my software for it. thanks.
sonusman
Banned
Why a Maximizer maximizes the volume!!! 
Also maximizes signal phase shifting, distortion, sends sound to noise ratios down the tube.
Basically, on the low end they usually pick a certain frequency, reproduce it an octave lower, then add it to the original signal to give the allusion of deeper bass. On the high end, usually these boxes just sample a certain frequency, distort it, then add it to the original. About what a Aural Exciter does.
In any case, they tend to just mess up what is being put through it, from a pure sonic standpoint.
These kinds of boxes are fun because for the first 5 secs you can really hear the effect they have on the sound. After that though, it you are not too deaf (like so many DJ's are) you start noticing the bad artifacts they impart on the sound.
Generally, I have found that people how favor these kinds of boxes don't have very good equipment that can reproduce 20Hz-20kHz very accurately. These "maximizers" give the allusion of a more extended frequency response. If phoney baloney sound is what you are after, then this is your $200 box.
If you are really looking for kick ass sound though, nothing really beats just having kick ass equipment. In the case of a DJ, you need a very clean mixer, at least 50% more power than what your speakers are rated at, and some very high quality subs and horns. Eminence drivers just are not going to cut it....
Yes you can get similar effects from some creative eq approach's, but these have their own problems too. Your best bet if you are trying to get a more extended frequency response in your system, no matter if you are a DJ, a guitarist, or whatever is to get decent equipment. Then you won't need those silly little boxes that mess up the sound.
I speak with some credentials here concerning sound systems as I still do consulting work for clubs, mixing for bands, have done club sound system installs for professional companies, and have mixed sound for some very big named people. Never have I used a Sonic Maximizer, nor seen one used in a real professional sound system. It is just not needed. The systems that I have heard that used them sounded very distorted.
Good luck. Hopefully when you go to sell that box you won't get ripped too bad.
Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com
Also maximizes signal phase shifting, distortion, sends sound to noise ratios down the tube.Basically, on the low end they usually pick a certain frequency, reproduce it an octave lower, then add it to the original signal to give the allusion of deeper bass. On the high end, usually these boxes just sample a certain frequency, distort it, then add it to the original. About what a Aural Exciter does.
In any case, they tend to just mess up what is being put through it, from a pure sonic standpoint.
These kinds of boxes are fun because for the first 5 secs you can really hear the effect they have on the sound. After that though, it you are not too deaf (like so many DJ's are) you start noticing the bad artifacts they impart on the sound.
Generally, I have found that people how favor these kinds of boxes don't have very good equipment that can reproduce 20Hz-20kHz very accurately. These "maximizers" give the allusion of a more extended frequency response. If phoney baloney sound is what you are after, then this is your $200 box.
If you are really looking for kick ass sound though, nothing really beats just having kick ass equipment. In the case of a DJ, you need a very clean mixer, at least 50% more power than what your speakers are rated at, and some very high quality subs and horns. Eminence drivers just are not going to cut it....
Yes you can get similar effects from some creative eq approach's, but these have their own problems too. Your best bet if you are trying to get a more extended frequency response in your system, no matter if you are a DJ, a guitarist, or whatever is to get decent equipment. Then you won't need those silly little boxes that mess up the sound.
I speak with some credentials here concerning sound systems as I still do consulting work for clubs, mixing for bands, have done club sound system installs for professional companies, and have mixed sound for some very big named people. Never have I used a Sonic Maximizer, nor seen one used in a real professional sound system. It is just not needed. The systems that I have heard that used them sounded very distorted.
Good luck. Hopefully when you go to sell that box you won't get ripped too bad.
Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com
C
Cooperman
New member
Hey Ed, I take your point about a Sonic Maximizer not being needed on top quality PA/DJ gear - you are infinitely more experienced than me on such issues. But I have read in quite a few articles where big named guitarists use Sonic Maximizers in their concert guitar rigs. Now obviously these guys are gonna have the best guitar rigs going around yet they still use the "BBE Process". Are these 'bad artifacts' you speak of less prevelent in a guitar rig? What I'm trying to say is, ok fair enough don't use Maximizers for PA/DJ gear but then why do many top guitarists who have great rigs use them?
S
Singking
New member
Sonusman - Ed.. I respect your opinion. I use my maximizer situationally. I have a good sound system using EV 1503ER main cabinets and 1810LER Subcabinets all powered by Carver 1200 amps run at straight 8ohms, Ashly crossover at 40-50hz. There are times when you want to fake the sound because of room acoustics where you just want the high end to cut through without it being piercing. This seems to do the trick. In an acoustically good room, I don't use it. I also have the Aural Exciter. I can see the difference on this with vocals both live and in my studio.
Bob
Bob
sonusman
Banned
Okay guys, fair enough here.
All of my experiences with guitarist's using the "Sonic Minimizer" have been terrible ones! But that is not to say that maybe this "box that rox" could not be used in a effective way. My question is, are those guitarist saying they use it in a advertisement, or was it a article about their rig? Was it used for all of their sounds, or for one particular patch? Often, guitarist's will get endorsement for products, and they create just one use for it so as to honor their contract for the endorsement. Hell, Eddis Van Halen says he uses Peavey guitars! Do you really think he is using a off-the-shelf Peavey guitar??? Hell no!!! Maybe, and just maybe a heavily modified Peavey guitar, or a custom made guitar with a Peavey logo on it.
Singking,
Hmmmmmm....I could see where maybe using this box might in a very rare situation help a bit, if used in extreme moderation. I used to manage a DJ/Karaoke company and was head sound tech. I found no situations where any "processed" sound was needed in ANY room. Hell, we didn't have any sub's except in out biggest system. When presented with a kind of dead room, I made EQ adjustments, or moved speakers to a spot that would get the horn above everyones head so that the high end didn't get absorb by dancers. But hey, if you are using one successfully, well, who am I to argue. Sounds like you have a lot better system than most DJ's though.
Anyway, I am hoping that my post at least get you all thinking about investigating other solutions to fixing sonic problems with sound systems rather than relying on a box do "aritficially" help out. All of my studying of sound has been fun and rewarding. Getting to the level where I am mixing sound for the likes of Steve Smith (ex Journey drummer who is a world class jazz drummer, go figure) Kurt Elling, and Rick Brahn to name a few has been a validation of my quest towards getting that "perfect sound". When another soundman comes up to me at a club that usually has pretty shabby sound and tells me that this is the best mix they have ever heard in this room is nice to hear also.
I push education so much on these pages. The engineers (live or studio) best tools is knowledge. The best results come from having a clear idea of what problems you are facing and deciding upon a solution based upon what is available to solve it, and what trade off's their will be for using that solution. Just blindly using a solution because you "heard" that everyone does it is not the way to go. An example of this is that many live sound men will insert a compressor on the kick drum the get it to sound bigger. Why it will certainly do that, it is usually at the expense of having a detailed high end. I have found in this situation that moving the mic to a different spot will accomplish the same thing. So maybe I don't have time to move the mic. Using the compressor may be my only way of helping the sound. Maybe lack of detail on the kick drum is not important, so the compressor idea is ok. The point is that the engineer should be aware of alternatives for solutions. He should also know the pro's and con's of any application he may use. Of course, experimentation is usually the best learning method, so I would encourage all to experiment. But don't just stop at the first solution that works for a problem. Try to see if there is another way. Try to figure out why certain things work and why other don't. You would be surprised at how this will open you up to many new things.
Ed
All of my experiences with guitarist's using the "Sonic Minimizer"
have been terrible ones! But that is not to say that maybe this "box that rox" could not be used in a effective way. My question is, are those guitarist saying they use it in a advertisement, or was it a article about their rig? Was it used for all of their sounds, or for one particular patch? Often, guitarist's will get endorsement for products, and they create just one use for it so as to honor their contract for the endorsement. Hell, Eddis Van Halen says he uses Peavey guitars! Do you really think he is using a off-the-shelf Peavey guitar??? Hell no!!! Maybe, and just maybe a heavily modified Peavey guitar, or a custom made guitar with a Peavey logo on it.Singking,
Hmmmmmm....I could see where maybe using this box might in a very rare situation help a bit, if used in extreme moderation. I used to manage a DJ/Karaoke company and was head sound tech. I found no situations where any "processed" sound was needed in ANY room. Hell, we didn't have any sub's except in out biggest system. When presented with a kind of dead room, I made EQ adjustments, or moved speakers to a spot that would get the horn above everyones head so that the high end didn't get absorb by dancers. But hey, if you are using one successfully, well, who am I to argue. Sounds like you have a lot better system than most DJ's though.
Anyway, I am hoping that my post at least get you all thinking about investigating other solutions to fixing sonic problems with sound systems rather than relying on a box do "aritficially" help out. All of my studying of sound has been fun and rewarding. Getting to the level where I am mixing sound for the likes of Steve Smith (ex Journey drummer who is a world class jazz drummer, go figure) Kurt Elling, and Rick Brahn to name a few has been a validation of my quest towards getting that "perfect sound". When another soundman comes up to me at a club that usually has pretty shabby sound and tells me that this is the best mix they have ever heard in this room is nice to hear also.
I push education so much on these pages. The engineers (live or studio) best tools is knowledge. The best results come from having a clear idea of what problems you are facing and deciding upon a solution based upon what is available to solve it, and what trade off's their will be for using that solution. Just blindly using a solution because you "heard" that everyone does it is not the way to go. An example of this is that many live sound men will insert a compressor on the kick drum the get it to sound bigger. Why it will certainly do that, it is usually at the expense of having a detailed high end. I have found in this situation that moving the mic to a different spot will accomplish the same thing. So maybe I don't have time to move the mic. Using the compressor may be my only way of helping the sound. Maybe lack of detail on the kick drum is not important, so the compressor idea is ok. The point is that the engineer should be aware of alternatives for solutions. He should also know the pro's and con's of any application he may use. Of course, experimentation is usually the best learning method, so I would encourage all to experiment. But don't just stop at the first solution that works for a problem. Try to see if there is another way. Try to figure out why certain things work and why other don't. You would be surprised at how this will open you up to many new things.
Ed
hixmix
Halibut, North Dakota
Use your ears. It might work on a couple of things but if you use it on everything you're gonna start sounding over processed. Maybe just use it on one or two tracks instead of the whole mix. If you need to send your mix through a maximizer you probobly don't have the sound you really want on tape anyway.