Harvey, Ed, Rec Eng, etc... V67, 4033... advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter Slackmaster2K
  • Start date Start date
Slackmaster2K

Slackmaster2K

Gone
Ok, this is not your typical "versus" thread, because from what I've read, both of the mics that I'm interested in are somewhat well-respected. I'm simply looking for some real, quantifiable advice from people with real experience with these microphones.

I was originally going to buy an AT4033, mainly because a lot of people that I trust like it, and it's mentioned frequently by professionals in the various recording magazines that I read. I live out here in Bozeman Montana, so it's not like I can go demo microphones or anything :(

Now somebody tipped me off to Harvey's posts about the V67, and I'm kind of getting excited. Like everyone, I'm poor :) Also like many of us here, I'm an amature. A sub-200 dollar microphone seems too good to be true. (please don't mention the C1000 or NT-1 because I've already made up my mind and I'm very stubborn)

What I'm looking for is an all-around decent microphone for recording vocals and acoustic guitar....but definately not limited to just vocals and guitar. I'm not looking for "pro" results because I simply can't achieve pro results yet, but I am looking for something that I can actually grow with. It's taken me a long time to get where I am, in part due to the fact that I had the crazy idea that it was all me and not my gear....now that I can hear my bad gear, I know that it's time to take the next step.

So, I guess I have two questions:

1) Since I have never heard the V67 or AT4033, which do you feel would best represent somebody with my particular needs? The V67 runs at around $200 or less, and I can get the 4033 for $329. I know that some of you have heard the things I've posted to the clinic...I used an SM57 for vocals on those....from what you heard of my voice and style(s), is it possible for you to recommend one or the other? I am willing to pay the extra money for the 4033 if it's something that would suit me better.

2) The V67 from Mars music sounds too good to pass up. But then I do remember something about a particular brand and model of microphone being sold "specially" by one of these big-name music chains at very good prices, but sub-par quality. Does anybody really know the deal with the mars mics? I do not want to hear about which color looks best...I really don't care. Somebody reported that Marshall claimed "slight sonic differences" and boy does that just set off all sorts of alarms in my brain. I think I'm to the point where I can hear the difference between good and almost good...so if paying an extra $40 for the "real" V67 is worth it, I guess I'd be willing. I mean let's consider the motivation here...why would a company sell specially marked items to distribution company, and at a substantially reduced rate?

Slackmaster 2000
 
Note: I just read that Mars does not allow microphones to be returned. Hmm...
 
Originally posted by Slackmaster2K
Click to expand...
What I'm looking for is an all-around decent microphone for recording vocals and acoustic guitar....but definately not limited to just vocals and guitar. I'm not looking for "pro" results because I simply can't achieve pro results yet, but I am looking for something that I can actually grow with.

Have you been reading the "diaphragm size/polar pattern" thread, running a few threads below this? Guitar and vocals are two different beasts. Most vocals are well served with large diaphragm mics, like the V67G. Guitars usually sound better with smaller mics, like the Oktava MC012 or the Marshall 603S, to name just a few low-priced, good sounding mics.

So, I guess I have two questions:

1) Since I have never heard the V67 or AT4033, which do you feel would best represent somebody with my particular needs? The V67 runs at around $200 or less, and I can get the 4033 for $329. I know that some of you have heard the things I've posted to the clinic...I used an SM57 for vocals on those....from what you heard of my voice and style(s), is it possible for you to recommend one or the other? I am willing to pay the extra money for the 4033 if it's something that would suit me better.

I haven't heard your clips so I can't tell you whether the V67G or the 4033 would be the better choice for your voice.

2) The V67 from Mars music sounds too good to pass up. But then I do remember something about a particular brand and model of microphone being sold "specially" by one of these big-name music chains at very good prices, but sub-par quality. Does anybody really know the deal with the mars mics? I do not want to hear about which color looks best...I really don't care. Somebody reported that Marshall claimed "slight sonic differences" and boy does that just set off all sorts of alarms in my brain. I think I'm to the point where I can hear the difference between good and almost good...so if paying an extra $40 for the "real" V67 is worth it, I guess I'd be willing. I mean let's consider the motivation here...why would a company sell specially marked items to distribution company, and at a substantially reduced rate?

Large chains buy in large quantities, so manufacturers will offer chain branded products at reduced prices to the big chains. I haven't heard the Mars version so I can't comment on any differences. The V67G is the only one I've heard that sounds wonderful to me, beyond that, I don't know.
 
Thanks Harvey, I know that my questions were both vague and really unanswerable. I just wanted some feedback.

Yes I did read about the LD vs SD in regards to recording acoustic guitars. Truthfully my acoustic guitars suck enough that I'm more concerned with vocals and environmental sounds. Top priority being that I need to do something about my vocals, so I'm going to start there. Of course in the future I hope to have a mic "collection" such that I'll have a variety of choices for each application, but that's not going to happen soon.

A recent private conversation with someone left me feeling that I should hold out and go for the AT4033, simply because of its track record. The fact that Mars has a no-return policy on microphones sort of reinforced that feeling. However, no microphone is perfect for every condition, so what would it hurt to own a V67 even if it wasn't a perfect match for my voice? I can always buy something else later, and certainly find some use for the V67. So there you go, my dilema. One that I only I can solve no doubt.

I have several tunes up at http://www.slackmaster2000.com that feature my horrible singing. Dirt and Bad Day kind of encompass my vocal range. Of course I'm not going to specifically ask anyone to listen until we're all on personal T1 connections and they decide to extend the length of the day by five minutes. But if anyone who's heard my shit would like to offer advice, my ears are wide open.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Emeric, check out http://www.abemusic.com/marshall/mxl67.asp ... you can get the mic with shock mount and cable for $199. I hear they also do ebay auctions with instant buy at $189. Free shipping ground.

Ametth called Marshall today, and they continue to claim that the difference between the Mars V67 and the regular V67G is the mogami wire, and that the screen is different, slightly effecting high frequencies. Dolemite pointed out that Marshall distributes Mogami wire, but that doesn't imply that Marshall's claim is untrue. I dunno....probably best to order elsewhere regardless.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Verify the Mars policy...

My local MARS lets me return things quite freely. You might ask the polocy before making a decision based on an unverified report or assumption.

The AT4033 is a very fine all around mike, with a good track record, and no known reliability or variability problems. They sell for $299 at 8th St (who also allow returns). I haven't heard the V67.
 
Okay, ya ready for a verdict between the 4033 and the V67G?

You tell me. Here's the information I have so far, so that you can make an informed decision:

The V67G is a 1" "true condenser" mic that requires 48 volts to polarize the capsule.

The 4033 is, in fact, a small-diaphragm electret (permanently charged) mic, with a baffle around the capsule to make it appear larger. It's actually a 15mm capsule (a little over 1/2"), and there's nothing inside that case that needs anything near 48 volts to run it.

As I recall, I did hear the 4033 when it first came out, and I was less than impressed. The top end was harsh to me.

My choice would be screw the 4033, but hey, that's just my opinion. Actually, it's not just my opinion - a lot of very big name engineers share my feelings about the low-end A-T mics.
 
I own both a 4033 and a V-67 (that I just bought at Mars a few days ago). I have had the 4033 for several years. My unqualified opinion is this: if I were in your shoes, I would call Mars Music and order the V-67 which is on sale for $169 including the shock mount. I have only experimented with the V-67 a little bit, but I really like what I hear. I have never been overly impressed with the 4033. Yes, I record with it, but I have always felt it was overrated. I can't quantify my opinion any more than that, but that is just my feeling. I would buy the V-67 for $169 at Mars and a pair of the 603s for $75 each (that includes shipping) from Abe's Music in Miami. You will have a great vocal mic and a pair of mics for recording acoustic guitar, piano, drum overheads, horns, etc., all for the price of one 4033. That sounds like a solution to me. Good luck.
 
Axis, my statement about the return policy was not based on assumption or rumor. It is clearly stated on the Mars website under "returns policy." I have no choice but to order online or via phone. If we had a local mars I would probably be down there right now demoing this mic!

Harvey, thanks for your honest opinion. It comes as quite a suprise because *usually* I hear just the opposite. I read a lot of interviews and often engineers will rave about the quality and sound of lower dollar AT microphones like the 4033. Also, sonusman has recommended them....and I have heard a couple recordings that sonusman did with the 4033 and was very impressed by the sound. NOW, everyone has their own preference, and mics are very application-dependant, and there's more to a recording than the microphone. I'm not disrepecting or trying to argue with you on any level. What I am happy about, is that I've found a couple microphones here that are in an appropriate price-range, and I've got opinions both ways from people that I respect. That means that at my lowly level, I probably can't go wrong either way. Maybe in a few years I'll have my own opinion!

blinddogblues: thanks for your comments. Do you have anything that you've recorded with the V-67 that I could hear? I dunno why, just curious.

Two things just bug the everloving shit out of me at this point:

1) Why are people recommending that I buy the "exclusive" microphone from Mars over the $30 more expensive regular microphone? There have been plenty of shit "exclusive" products in the past...and big chains like Mars aren't exactly well-respected (well, maybe in a McDonald's kind of way). I just find it odd. If we were talking guitars, I wouldn't buy a "Sam Ash Exclusive Les Paul Custom" for $2199 if I could get a "Les Paul Custom" for $2299. But we're not talking guitars. So, If given the choice:

a) V67M W/ Mount for $167 free shipping from Mars
b) V67G W/Mount & 20' cable for $199 free shipping from abes

You would choose the special Mars model? If people really have had good experiences with mars under similar circumstances, I'll certainly save the $30. Otherwise I'll go with my gut and get the real deal.

2) If the AT4033 is not a large diaphram condensor, which I for some reason assumed it to be, then it would probably be better for acoustic guitar. So maybe it would be a better choice? Ok ok, so this one is unanswerable....I'm not looking for miraculous advice or anything :)

I wish I had a reference!!! Anybody want to loan me a few nice microphones? I'll give em right back! Ha ha :) :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Originally posted by Slackmaster2K
Click to expand...
Axis, my statement about the return policy was not based on assumption or rumor. It is clearly stated on the Mars website under "returns policy." I have no choice but to order online or via phone. If we had a local mars I would probably be down there right now demoing this mic!

Each store can "bend the rules". If you order by phone, ask them if you can return it within a reasonable time if you're not happy with it. Explain that since it's exclusive to them, you have no way of pre-testing it. If they give you static, ask to speak to a manager.

Harvey, thanks for your honest opinion. It comes as quite a suprise because *usually* I hear just the opposite. I read a lot of interviews and often engineers will rave about the quality and sound of lower dollar AT microphones like the 4033. Also, sonusman has recommended them....and I have heard a couple recordings that sonusman did with the 4033 and was very impressed by the sound. NOW, everyone has their own preference, and mics are very application-dependant, and there's more to a recording than the microphone. I'm not disrepecting or trying to argue with you on any level. What I am happy about, is that I've found a couple microphones here that are in an appropriate price-range, and I've got opinions both ways from people that I respect. That means that at my lowly level, I probably can't go wrong either way. Maybe in a few years I'll have my own opinion!

Ed happens to be an excellent engineer and can get a good sound of almost anything. I talked to Al Schmitt and some other pretty well known people and they almost unanimously agreed that the smaller low end AT line was not a consideration for them, but the larger 4060, 70 etc. were very good mics indeed. I got a great sound out of an AKG C3000 - once or twice. The rest of the time, it sounded like shit. I bought it when it sold new for $848, and I sold it for around $150 a few years ago. But maybe the sound of the 4033 will do just fine for your present setup - that's gotta be your call.

Two things just bug the everloving shit out of me at this point:

1) Why are people recommending that I buy the "exclusive" microphone from Mars over the $30 more expensive regular microphone? There have been plenty of shit "exclusive" products in the past...and big chains like Mars aren't exactly well-respected (well, maybe in a McDonald's kind of way). I just find it odd. If we were talking guitars, I wouldn't buy a "Sam Ash Exclusive Les Paul Custom" for $2199 if I could get a "Les Paul Custom" for $2299. But we're not talking guitars. So, If given the choice:

a) V67M W/ Mount for $167 free shipping from Mars
b) V67G W/Mount & 20' cable for $199 free shipping from abes

You would choose the special Mars model? If people really have had good experiences with mars under similar circumstances, I'll certainly save the $30. Otherwise I'll go with my gut and get the real deal.

Because we're all "bottom feeders" here and if I knew for sure they were exactly the same, that's where I'd buy it too.

2) If the AT4033 is not a large diaphram condensor, which I for some reason assumed it to be, then it would probably be better for acoustic guitar. So maybe it would be a better choice? Ok ok, so this one is unanswerable....I'm not looking for miraculous advice or anything :)

The 4033 is a "small diaphragm electret mic" (which explains a lot now that I recall my thoughts when I first heard it). The Marshall 603S is smoother sounding to me.

I wish I had a reference!!! Anybody want to loan me a few nice microphones? I'll give em right back! Ha ha :) :)

If you were in Texas, I'd loan them to you in a minute or let you play with them at the studio during my down time.
 
Slackmaster2K said:

Now somebody tipped me off to Harvey's posts about the V67, and I'm kind of getting excited. Like everyone, I'm poor :) Also like many of us here, I'm an amature. A sub-200 dollar microphone seems too good to be true. (please don't mention the C1000 or NT-1 because I've already made up my mind and I'm very stubborn)
Click to expand...


Hey Slack,
Where are these posts by Harvey that got you so excited? I wanna read 'em too! I do a lot of vocal recording (a cappella music) so I'm thinking that an LD condensor (i.e. the V67) would be a good match...well...that and it's more in my budget.

Also, whats wrong with the c1000 or the NT1? I did some quick and dirty internet searching and I haven't found anything bad...yet. :D Whats there to be stubborn about? Did you read a bad review somwhere? Where you gettin your info?

Balt.
 
Harvey, thanks again! Your invitation to play with your microphones is almost enough to make me move to Texas :)

Since I'm so far away from the nearest Mars, I'd hardly feel confident that calling them would result in preferential treatment. However this is what I would do regardless, because sometimes it can work. Just getting a name can give the consumer a lot of extra weight.

Knowing myself I will probably buy from mars just because I am such a cheapskate that I won't even follow my own gut! Hence my pathetic gear list filled with cheap garbage that has ended up costing me more than I would have paid buying tried & true equipment.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Balt, if you search for V67 and Harvey on the BBS here, you'll find all sorts of threads about this mic, since it's created quite a stir due to its price.

I am really not qualified to judge the NT-1 or the C1000. I base my feelings on the following: a) advise from the people who have proven ability b) recordings made with the NT-1, of which there are many around these parts. I'm not judging anyone on a personal level, we all have unique perspectives on "sounds good."

Again, I don't judge these mics on personal experience. I have no experience with any microphone but the SM57. I am a complete amature. But I do listen. I take advice from people like Ed. Even though the styles of music he's posted haven't been totally right up my alley, his advice has always helped my mixes, and I've personally heard the kind of quality he's able to achieve. I take advice from people like Ametth who, despite being moderately new to this shit compared to some people, makes some recordings that I just think are absolutely spectacular sounding, of music that is right up my alley. I take Harvey's advice because he's been doing this for 40 years and I've seen his gear list :) Plus I've talked to people who have heard is stuff on r.a.p.

This is going way off topic, and I'll probably offend people even though I'm not intending to. I wish that more people would make their recordings available around here. It's so much easier to know who to ask certain questions to when you have some idea as to their style. I think that some advice is pretty global and applies to most recordings, but some advice is not. When I know what somebody's recordings tend to sound like, I have a better understanding of where their advice is going to take me, and I can customize it, or even go so far as to ignore it, such that it better suits my own ears and what they (my ears) want to hear.

Wow that makes me sound like I actually have some direction. In reality I can barely figure out which cables to plug in where, and I adjust knobs in a somewhat random fashion based on misinterpreted advice and misunderstood concepts.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Get the v67 from Abe you cheapskate. No really, in light of some of the things I've read here about the 4033, I would go for the v67.

In another thread, Harvey mentioned that the v67 sounded close to some older neuman's..now that carries alot of weight, thats huge to me. I never would have given this mic a second look had I not read his reviews on r.a.p. and heard some of his recordings. This mic is definitely on my buy list.
 
Abe's carries the black, green and silver, and if you ask me, the silver looks pretty cool, so the mic must be cool!
 
V67G

Does the G stand for the color or is this another model ID or something?

I went to ABE's music and it doesn't show the V67G.

It only shows V67. I want to make sure I get the right one.

,Jerry
 
From what I gather, it's both the model and color. The only way to ensure that you get the latest revision is to get a green (gold) one. I guess....

I *think* that abe is selling the green one....his ebay postings have all been green mics. I emailed him yesterday and am still awaiting his response.

Slackmaster 2000
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top