Harvey asked me to post my question for your thoughts and feedback?

S

slimbobby

New member
Hi Everyone

I recently e-mailed Harvey with a question and he gave me some great advice but thought it would be a good idea for me to post the question on here for your feedback too.

I have a Panasonic Mini DV Camcorder approx (£300) so decent but nothing special with stereo input for external mic.

I have my own simple studio in my cellar. So recording inside.

I am about to start shooting and recording my stand up comedy routines for my website and to post on to you tube.

Harvey has explained to me that if I chose a mono mic like for example the Shure SM58 I will need a ?Y? cable to make sure the mono signal goes into both stereo channels in my camera so when played back it comes out of both speakers .He would put it a lot better than that but that is my basic understanding.

I have found that using tie clip microphones are no good as I move around a bit and they rub on my clothes and I get a lot of interference .My present mic is:

Sony CS10 stereo tie clip Electret condenser microphone (£50)

But I don?t put it on me but put it on a table in front of me approx 23 cm down from my mouth (ie) nipple height and 50 cm away from my body. It works fine and that position is the nearest I can get it to my mouth without it being picked up in the footage shot from camera.

But I am wondering if I can get a much better recording using a different approach.

My options are:

A

= Hold a mic normally so it is in footage and looks very standup like. This also means the mic can be held close to my mouth.

Thoughts = I am after a loud clear sound as my voice is quite soft/whisper

The SM58 and AKG D5 come to mind and after listening on you tube I must admit as famous as the Shure SM58 is I prefer the AKG D5 as it sounds louder and clearer.
My budget is £50 -£100 approx or say $100 - $200.

B

= Position the mic either using a boom mic stand or table mic tripod. Place mic 23 cm below my mouth (ie) nipple height and 50 cm away from body. This is the nearest I can get it to my mouth.

Thoughts = Again I am after a loud clear sound as my voice is quite soft/whisper
Again The SM58 and AKG D5 come to mind and after listening on you tube I must admit as famous as the Shure SM58 is I prefer the AKG D5 as it sounds louder and clearer.

Also not sure if the SM58 would work well 50 cm away from my mouth?
How would the AKG D5 work at that range?

If I choose this option (ie) distance from mouth do I need a condenser mic compared to a dynamic mic?

Also I need to know about whether I would need an amp or if the mic/s can be plugged straight into my camera

I have only mentioned 2 dynamic mics here and my present:

Sony CS10 stereo tie clip Electret condenser microphone (£50)

Does work o.k but what do you guys recommend I do so I can get the best possible result?

Can?t thank you all enough for any feedback or help you can pass my way.

Cheers:)

Rob
 
IMO, there are more than just audio reasons for using a hand-held. Every stand-up comic, it seems, from Lenny Bruce's time until today, uses a hand-held mic- it has become a prop and a part of the act. Bill Cosby used it to very good effect by putting the mic almost IN his mouth for effect- say, when he wanted to sound like God, or Dad, or his wife- to emphasize the authority of whomever he "was" at the moment.

Not sure what that AKG mic LOOKS like, but the SM58 just "looks" like what a stand-up comic would use. Can you imagine a stand-up comic using either a "Bob Newbanks" mic, or a C&W "hat act" head mic? I certainly can not.

I would say your act will play much better if you use a hand-held SM-58 or look-a-like. You will probably do just fine with a dynamic, but Shure makes a hand-held condenser if it turns out you need one (but I'll bet you don't.)

You will not need an AMP, but you might need a mixer. Behringer and probably others makes a ONE-channel mixer- as I recall it also has RCA inputs for a tape or CD player. Something like that would do- you could mix in some recorded stuff like background music, "audience" reaction, whatever, and as you are doing spoken voice instead of music, sound quality is not so much an issue. A 2- or 4-channel mixer would do just as well, and give you the flexibility of using it for other things, but the one-channel jobbie is gonna be the smallest and most portable. Follow directions in the manual on how to connect and use it, and you will be good.
 
Thanks Stevieb

Some great advice there. Yes I agree that the Shure SM58 is a legend and very much linked to stand up and the comics you mention use it to good effect however like Robin Williams and Eddie Izzard my act is quite dynamic with lots of movement so a SM58 could limit .

So I might try both (ie) buy a SM58 and experiment with handheld mic

If I am trying the other option any suggestions (ie) mic located approx nipple height and 50 cm away from chest?

I can then try both ways and decide.

Much appreciated Stevieb
 
How are you going to be moving around a lot with the camera only picking you up from the chest up?

The lavalier mic is the best option. You simply need to put it someplace where it doesn't rustle around or change your wardrobe to get rid of the problem.

The problem with having a mic farther away from your mouth is that it starts to pick up the room sound.
 
Thanks for your feedback Farview

I just find the tie clip mic rubs quite a bit but if that is the best option then I will persevere.

So to reflect do you agree that I either go for Shure SM58 used as a hand held mic like Stevieb and Harvey recommended

Or if hands free then preserve with my tie clip mic (ie) CS10 stereo condenser Mic

Much appreciated
 
Thanks Moresound

Great idea!

I am very busy with work but this weekend I will make a video of me in my studio with my mic and upload to You Tube for yours and anyone else's feedback.

Can I PM you when it is up live on You Tube?

Really appreciate yours and everyone's help with this.

Thanks everyone !!!!
 
slimbobby said:
Thanks Moresound

Great idea!

I am very busy with work but this weekend I will make a video of me in my studio with my mic and upload to You Tube for yours and anyone else's feedback.

Can I PM you when it is up live on You Tube?

Really appreciate yours and everyone's help with this.

Thanks everyone !!!!
Click to expand...

Yup. That would be great!
 
Thanks Moresound !

I will post on this thread when video is uploaded over weekend and Pm you too.

Really appreciate this.
 
slimbobby,

Video studios used to use dynamic omni lav mics like the EV 649b. My guess is you will get less room noise and clothing noise with a mic like that than with a Sony condenser. They came with a string that would go around your neck so you can wear it like a necklace.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Hairylarry

Thanks so much for advice I will look into EV 649b. I am going to post a You Tube video of me in my make do studio with my present mic so I would love your feedback about it .It will be live this weekend and I will mention it on this thread and may I PM you when it is up?

Thanks a million

Slimbob
 
Thanks Farview

I will keep on experimenting. Are there any devices or equipment that will keep the mic away from my body (ie) few inches? At present it is on my shirt button 3 buttons down approx (ie) nipple height.Any advice /recommendations?

Cheers

Slimbob
 
Pro theater tape the microphone over the head and along the hair line of the forehead ..... seems to work fine and is hidden.
 
Thanks guys for the advice.

I will be working on my video tomorrow and will get up live on you tube tomorrow night.

Much appreciated .

Hope you all have a great weekend.
 
You could also learn to speak louder. Moving around a lot and whispering don't really go together.
 
Hi Everyone

Been busy and have got up 3 separate You Tube videos to make sure good quality compared to 1 big one.The below links should take you to my videos with no problems but if they don't just either copy and paste below video codes directly into Google search or into You Tubes search box and you will find them no problem.

1st = Intro

YouTube - ‪Home Recording Forum Slimbob Video 1 - Introduction‬‏

2nd = Mic position test using my Sony CS10 tie clip condenser mic.

YouTube - ‪Home Recording Forum Slimbob Video 2 - Mic Position tests‬‏

3rd = Summary

YouTube - ‪Home Recording Forum SUMMARY 0001‬‏

Total time of all 3 videos is about 8-9 minutes

I am hoping that the videos will give you an idea of what I am trying to do /achieve.

I have found my Sony mic does tend to pop and crackle a bit which you will hear on the videos, not as bad when placed further away from me but then I get less volume. Catch 22!

I will be using my mic to record many hours of material over the long term, so if what I have isn’t good enough then please recommend a mic that will not pop as much and last me (ie) a real work horse.

Hairylarry mentioned the EV-649b dynamic tie clip mic and I have already been recommended the Shure SM58. However when you watch the video the Shure might not be acceptable for what I want and if placed away from my mouth could be too quite???.

I am happy with the Sony CS10’s volume when attached on me (see videos) but as it is a condenser is it too sensitive and fragile for the long term?

If you recommend another mic I can always sell my Sony on ebay and make sure I get the right mic for the job. As I have limited microphone knowledge I know you experienced guys can save me so much wasted time and problems by getting the right mic and equipment from the start compared to wasting hours of time shooting material that looks good but the sound lets it down!

Thanks so much everyone I really do appreciate all your feedback now my videos are up on You Tube.

All the best to you.

Slimbob
 
Hello Slimbob

The Sony stereo microphone seems best for audio quality when it is attached to your body. When it is 50 Cm. from you it sounds hollow and you can here the room some what, Acoustic treatment could help but keeping it on your body will be best.

I wouldn't worry about the clothing noise didn't seem that bad at all for it helps give dynamics to your movement and being a visual artist this actually helps.

Then only thing I would suggest for your set up as it is , is to get rid of the sibilance of your voice the simplest way to do this is to back off a bit on the high end in your channel strip of your console which I believe that you mentioned in your video as having one before the camera.

You 3rd video clip ends abruptly in mid sentence about 2/3s of the way through it.



And I was really hoping to have witnessed some of you act!! A joke or two maybe. :D
 
Hello Slimbob

The Sony stereo microphone seems best for audio quality when it is attached to your body. When it is 50 Cm. from you it sounds hollow and you can here the room some what, Acoustic treatment could help but keeping it on your body will be best.

I wouldn't worry about the clothing noise didn't seem that bad at all for it helps give dynamics to your movement and being a visual artist this actually helps.

Thanks Moresound for your feedback.

Yes on the body does sound fuller and I didn’t think about the rustling with movment enhancing the movement! Good thinking.

Then only thing I would suggest for your set up as it is , is to get rid of the sibilance of your voice.

Something I did notice a fair bit of popping and crackling during my normal speech when the mic was worn on my waistcoat? Is this the sibilance you mention??

the simplest way to do this is to back off a bit on the high end in your channel strip of your console which I believe that you mentioned in your video as having one before the camera.

Please could you explain? I don’t understand? The mic is plugged directly into the stereo mic in jack on the camcorder I have no amp or any other equipment More sound? Should I?


You 3rd video clip ends abruptly in mid sentence about 2/3s of the way through it.

I used the fade transition basically lost a second of speech nothing important

And I was really hoping to have witnessed some of you act!! A joke or two maybe.

Still re arranging stuff but when my project is finished and up online I will PM you but could be a while!!!!!!

So Moresound am I best sticking with the tie clip mic on body approach? Is my Sony CS10 stereo condenser mic acceptable or do you recommend I choose another Tie clip mic? Hairylarry mentioned the EV649b? What would you do in my shoes to get the best audio I can?

Thanks again very much for taking the time to watch my videos and help me.

Slimbob
 
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