Harshness...

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Um, I've played guitar longer, dummy,

Nice job taking away the only excuse you had for being wrong.

I've been recording and mixing audio since you were in your second year of first grade, clown boy, and have recorded more guitarists than songs you know how to play on any instrument, and there has NEVER ONCE been a time where a change of strings made things worse. Sure, sometimes it didn't matter much, but more often than not it made both the recording process and the recording better, and NEVER has it made anything worse.

You could play every instrument in a fucking orchestra and it doesn't matter, because you're the class clown here, by your own choice, making your opinion meaningless to anybody looking for more than a pathetic laugh.

G.

 

[Greg_L]

Nice job taking away the only excuse you had for being wrong.

I've been recording and mixing audio since you were in your second year of first grade, clown boy, and have recorded more guitarists than songs you know how to play on any instrument, and there has NEVER ONCE been a time where a change of strings made things worse. Sure, sometimes it didn't matter much, but more often than not it made both the recording process and the recording better, and NEVER has it made anything worse.

You could play every instrument in a fucking orchestra and it doesn't matter, because you're the class clown here, by your own choice, making your opinion meaningless to anybody looking for more than a pathetic laugh.

G.

Lol!

You gotta defend yourself even harder when you insert your foot in your mouth, huh dummy? Nice use of the "I've been doing this forever!" card. That's why you're here with noobs and hobbyists, right? Ever notice how real pros in any profession don't hang out on message boards? Fucking hack.

Bottom line, and this is fact, new/old strings is purely personal preference. Some drummers like heads that have been worn in a little. Personal preference. Everyone knows that, except for you.

 

[dintymoore]

Kingofpain678 if there's anyway to try another mic I would go for that. Borrow one, steal one from your Grandma - whatever it takes!

After the playing, the guitar and the amp, the mic makes the most difference. It doesn't make a minor difference, it makes a huge difference, and I suspect that's your main problem.

I have never heard anything from Nady that was even remotely usable. An SM57 is bad enough but they have been used and worked for lots of people. You can find EV mics pretty cheap, but the truth is that most of the guitar tracks you've heard on recordings were probably recorded with Neumanns so without knowing it, that's probably the sound you have in your head.

For starters, I'd scrounge another dynamic mic from a buddy and try that.

 

[Sonixx]

Would read again...

 

[Kingofpain678]

Kingofpain678 if there's anyway to try another mic I would go for that. Borrow one, steal one from your Grandma - whatever it takes!

After the playing, the guitar and the amp, the mic makes the most difference. It doesn't make a minor difference, it makes a huge difference, and I suspect that's your main problem.

I have never heard anything from Nady that was even remotely usable. An SM57 is bad enough but they have been used and worked for lots of people. You can find EV mics pretty cheap, but the truth is that most of the guitar tracks you've heard on recordings were probably recorded with Neumanns so without knowing it, that's probably the sound you have in your head.

For starters, I'd scrounge another dynamic mic from a buddy and try that.

That and a better guitar.
Just looking at the frequency response of a 57, it has some peaks for 4 KHz to about 9 KHz which wouldn't help... And I'm not sure how 57's will sound but I don't know if it would be better or not. It DEFINITELY can't be any worse than the mic I have now though...

 

[Sonixx]

Just looking at the frequency response of a 57, it has some peaks for 4 KHz to about 9 KHz which wouldn't help...

You're over analyzing.

And I'm not sure how 57's will sound but I don't know if it would be better or not. It DEFINITELY can't be any worse than the mic I have now though...

Is a 57 that big of a question in your mind? It's the stalwart for recording heavy gtr.

 

[Kingofpain678]

Every one here is right, you can have a crap mic and still get a good sound from it so look at the source.

I read somewhere that many people fuck up guitar tones because they listen to the tone 10 ft away from the amp, which is why many people use the mid scoop idea, which sounds good from that position but when its close miced live, or for recording, it just sounds like mush. So as many people have said try to listen close to the amp (without blowing your ears) and get the tone right there, try not to go mad with volume, I have also read that many people like to use smaller amps at lesser volume as the tone it transmitted a bit clearer.

Actually, no, your supposed to turn your amp up. Reason being is it drives your power section and drives your speakers at which point your speakers begin to excurse which is when the speakers begin to move back and forth in sympathy to your playing. This is also when cabinet involvement becomes part of the equation too. You also wanna listen at that point because wtf is the point of sticking your ear next to a speaker to listen to the speakers sound when it's just gonna change when you turn it up?
As for the mid scoop, it's not just that it sounds "mushy", it's that a guitar by nature is a midrange instrument so you need those mids in your guitar tone if you plan on getting the tone into a mix and getting it to fit. The reason your not supposed to listen 10 ft. away is because at that distance, the room becomes part of the tone. Also, mics hear things differently than we do thanks to bone cavitation. Bone cavitation is basically the way the bones in our body/head affect vibrations (sound) due to our body's resonant frequency. Everything in the universe has it's own resonant frequency based on size... depending on an objects size it will resonate with certain frequencies better than others. An example of this is a wine glass... the myth about glass shattering due to excessive SPL levels is true, you just have to find the resonant frequency of the glass, amplify that frequency and the glass will start vibrating in sympathy. When there is too much vibration the glass will shatter

As little as I know on the matter, I have got the tone I want out ofthe amp, and then turned the gain/distortion down a fair bit, for some reason it has come across alot more clearly,

That's because distortion is compression, When you bring the distortion of your amp down you bring back transients of the guitar signal which gives you a clearer, and more articulate overdrive/distortion sound. Which is also why when you crank the gain on a high gain amp, everything starts to blend to together and sound like a big fizzy mess.

with the distortion I want and the tone as crisp as I imagin it being. or you could record like 5 takes of the guitar, going from really clean staging it up untill its really distorted and then mix the clarity of the clean sound with the best attributes of the other takes, It makes the guitar have the distortion your after, with clarity so you can really hear it shine.

You should also apply compression to a clean sound so that it get's a little closer transient wise to the distorted or overdrive signal which can help them gel together a little better.

Have you cheacked the gain of your mic, try reducing that? Ive found I have had really good results recording with next to no gain on the mic input.

Gain staging. Your preamp should boost your signal to line level, nothing more and nothing less unless you notice that there is either a better signal to noise ratio by boosting or cutting, or to achieve a certain sound characteristic of the preamp.

 

[kcearl]

Spoken with the true expertise of a drummer .

G.

another ad hominem attack...dude whats with all the anger?

 

[Greg_L]

another ad hominem attack...dude whats with all the anger?

He's pretty mad because I'm always right without putting forth 1/100 the effort he does.

 

[benherron.rrr]

Actually, no, your supposed to turn your amp up. Reason being is it drives your power section and drives your speakers at which point your speakers begin to excurse which is when the speakers begin to move back and forth in sympathy to your playing. This is also when cabinet involvement becomes part of the equation too. You also wanna listen at that point because wtf is the point of sticking your ear next to a speaker to listen to the speakers sound when it's just gonna change when you turn it up?
As for the mid scoop, it's not just that it sounds "mushy", it's that a guitar by nature is a midrange instrument so you need those mids in your guitar tone if you plan on getting the tone into a mix and getting it to fit. The reason your not supposed to listen 10 ft. away is because at that distance, the room becomes part of the tone. Also, mics hear things differently than we do thanks to bone cavitation. Bone cavitation is basically the way the bones in our body/head affect vibrations (sound) due to our body's resonant frequency. Everything in the universe has it's own resonant frequency based on size... depending on an objects size it will resonate with certain frequencies better than others. An example of this is a wine glass... the myth about glass shattering due to excessive SPL levels is true, you just have to find the resonant frequency of the glass, amplify that frequency and the glass will start vibrating in sympathy. When there is too much vibration the glass will shatter



That's because distortion is compression, When you bring the distortion of your amp down you bring back transients of the guitar signal which gives you a clearer, and more articulate overdrive/distortion sound. Which is also why when you crank the gain on a high gain amp, everything starts to blend to together and sound like a big fizzy mess.



You should also apply compression to a clean sound so that it get's a little closer transient wise to the distorted or overdrive signal which can help them gel together a little better.




Gain staging. Your preamp should boost your signal to line level, nothing more and nothing less unless you notice that there is either a better signal to noise ratio by boosting or cutting, or to achieve a certain sound characteristic of the preamp.

I was just trying to help. but you ended up helping me a little, I abbandoned recording amps when I realised my amp has the most annoying hissing even without having anything plugged in, so every time I try to record it it sounds crap with a constant annoying feed back.
I was just goin on stuff I have been told by past guitar teachers n stuff

 

[Kingofpain678]

I was just trying to help. but you ended up helping me a little, I abbandoned recording amps when I realised my amp has the most annoying hissing even without having anything plugged in, so every time I try to record it it sounds crap with a constant annoying feed back.
I was just goin on stuff I have been told by past guitar teachers n stuff

Is it solid state or tube?

 

[mcmetal]

You could try re-amping.Record yourself direct or use a di box,splitter from radioshack,etc. to tap off of your input signal.Then you can line out to your amp,experiment with your tone,and once you find something that works record it.

 

[Kingofpain678]

You could try re-amping.Record yourself direct or use a di box,splitter from radioshack,etc. to tap off of your input signal.Then you can line out to your amp,experiment with your tone,and once you find something that works record it.

I'd like to but the output from an audio interface is line level and the input on a guitar amp is a little higher than mic level. I would need a reamp box which takes a Hi-Z signal and converts it back to low-z. Basically a reamp box is a DI box in reverse.

 

[legionserial]

Did you try angling the mic a bit?

 

[Kingofpain678]

Did you try angling the mic a bit?

Yessir, I said screw my way of micing the cab and went with the one you had mentioned the other day.

I think when I get some time I'll fiddle with it a little more....

 

[Bristol Posse]

I think you have gotten the whole get it right at the source bit. Couple of points about the guitar.

1 roll off the tone a little with the pickup controls to bleed off some of the treble.
2 Don't worry so much about a hot signal off the P'ups and try dropping the level of the P'ups (I notice you say you raised them) this can sometimes give you a slightly more mellow sound.

Also continue to mess with the amp settings until it sounds right don't accept sub standard tone, a cheap guitar can sound just fine if you put in the time and effort to find your tone

Once in the box if you want to simulate very, vey basically what tape/analog can do to a sound, get a saturation plug on pretty light settings (google "Bootsy Ferric TDS" for a good free one) and maybe shelve some of the high end frequencies with an EQ.

This won't give you close to real analog sound of the 70s, and the fix in tracking part is still the most important, but it might help a little to give you what you want once you get the recorded sound as close as you can. And, if nothing else, it gives you another (Free) plug to play with

good luck!

 

[Kingofpain678]

I think you have gotten the whole get it right at the source bit. Couple of points about the guitar.

1 roll off the tone a little with the pickup controls to bleed off some of the treble.

I've been trying that off and on, I'm still a bit iffy on the difference.

2 Don't worry so much about a hot signal off the P'ups and try dropping the level of the P'ups (I notice you say you raised them) this can sometimes give you a slightly more mellow sound.

It's not that I'm necessarily wanting a hot output, it just so happens to be that a hot output is a byproduct of my original intention which was only to get more of the pickups sound rather than the tone of the guitar's wood. I kept gain staging in mind though and dropped the gain on the pre of my amp...

Once in the box if you want to simulate very, vey basically what tape/analog can do get a saturation plug on pretty light settings (google "Bootsy Ferric TDS" for a good free one) and maybe shelve some of the high end frequencies with an EQ.


This won't give you close to real analog sound, and the fix in tracking part is still the most important, but it might help a little to give you what you want once you get the recorded sound as close as you can

good luck!

Lol @ "bootsy ferric". I'll definitely give it a try
And btw, thanks for the information that actually applies to my original question

Thanks a million bristole

 

[Bristol Posse]

I've been trying that off and on, I'm still a bit iffy on the difference.

Maybe the pots on your guitar aren't that great, turning down the tone should bleed off some of the treble/harshness

It's not that I'm necessarily wanting a hot output, it just so happens to be that a hot output is a byproduct of my original intention which was only to get more of the pickups sound rather than the tone of the guitar's wood. I kept gain staging in mind though and dropped the gain on the pre of my amp...

This is not really about gainstaging but about the tone. Raising the pickups will give you a lot more output but can be also adding a lot of mud or harshness depending on which position pickup you are using, it will vary a lot between guitars though. Try dropping the P'ups and turning up the volume on the amp instead and see if you are getting a more mellow tone off the guitar

Lol @ "bootsy ferric". I'll definitely give it a try
And btw, thanks for the information that actually applies to my original question

Thanks a million bristole

Hope it works out

 

[kcearl]

Bootsy stuff is pretty good...i think they have a channel strip as well, Ive used it on vocals before and its as good as some of the pod farm pre amps

 

[themdla]

The new string thing is bullshit. I mean sure, you don't want mis-matched or rusty strings, but a little bit worn in strings sound better to me than brand new strings.

sorry had to chime in on this one!

i've been a licensed GTR tech for the last 5yrs and strings are a big deal!

if your strings get old or have "dents" from the frets in the bottom of them they are garbage/fin....

a GTR string will not reach "proper" tune (with all the harmonics and fundmentals lining up in tune) with dirty or mishapen strings.

if you play alot replace your strings every 2 wks to a month