Hardest to mic?

[Cult_Status02]

In your opinnion, what is(are) the hardest drum(s) for you to mic. What just doesn't work out for you sometimes. Make sure you explain what it is that gets you sometimes.

For me, it's the floor-tom. I can NEVER get it the way I want (always a rumble when too close, and not enough low end when brought back. Yes, I've tried tuning the floor-tom differently so the kick won't make the head vibrate, but no luck!). Which brings me to this: what mic would you recommend under $100 that will work good for the floor tom. And also, how do you prefer to mic the floor-tom. Thanks for your time guys, I hope this thread will help more than just me.

 

[PhilGood]

Under $100 I would go with an SM-57, a GLS ES-57 (1/3 the price) or a condenser like the SP B1.

I will tell you what I think are the most important lessons I have learned in micing a kit.

1. Let the drums be drums. Do NOT try to make them sound like a recording before you mic them. Let them speak in the most natural way they can. Just the same as they were right out of the box. Tune them well, then after that leave them alone. Seriously. Don't try to weigh them down and dampen the sound with wads of tape and tissue and foam. Changing head types is the most effective way to get the sound you want.

2. Get good cymbals. You CANNOT make bad cymbals sound good. Period.

3. Use good mics and very little (if any) Equalization. EQ can be very bad and destroy the sound. Don't put the mic as close to the drum as you can thinking that is going to get the best sound. Drums sounds are a composite of the materials that make up the drum. If you put the mic close to the skin, all you're going to hear is the skin. Let the sound develop before it reaches the mic. Play with placement rather than screw with the EQ. I just recently figured out that the body from my snare is captured by my tom mics and the mic on my snare picks up the articulation. Overheads get the crispness. Everything has to work in concert.

4. A good room. You don't realize the havoc a bad room can have on the sound when there are more than one or two mics recording. Get your acoustics in order.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I have been working on my drum sound for a long time and have gotten to be very proud of it. Now if I could just play ONE track without a mistake...

 

[Scoop]

Hey cult,

I hear what you're saying on the floor tom. Had some fun with it recently.

Here are some pics of what I did to get the best result (used a sm58 and it worked out great). Does need a little bit of gate in the mix though.

www.puresound.co.za/aok/pics.htm

Hope this helps you.

 

[PhilGood]

Hey cult,

I hear what you're saying on the floor tom. Had some fun with it recently.

Here are some pics of what I did to get the best result (used a sm58 and it worked out great). Does need a little bit of gate in the mix though.

www.puresound.co.za/aok/pics.htm

Hope this helps you.

LOVE the oven mit!! That's just cool! I must remember it!

 

[Scoop]

LOVE the oven mit!! That's just cool! I must remember it!

Actually made a HUGE difference on the Tambo...

(Even bigger difference to the foot ... LOL)

 

[Cult_Status02]

Hey guys, thanks much. I had a lot of fun earlier tonight trying out 4 different mics - sm 57 (good), nady DM-77 (WAY too boomy and rumbly - shitty mic over all), Radio shack - too tinny (I don't know the model, doesn't matter because it sounded like crap), and last but not least - the Audio-Technica ATR30 (winner!). I placed this thing about 5 inches above the rim pointed at the middle and it sounds pretty good, a happy medium between the nady and radio shack mic. I couldn't use the 57 because I need it for a rack tom. I'm not 100% happy with my sound, but it'll do for now until I restock my mics in a couple months (a couple more sm57s...mmmmm 5 total). Anyway, I'll see what happens tomorrow when I spend another 2 hours trying to get my envisioned sound. (my drums already sound the way I want, just looking for the mic to capture it the way I want.)

 

[Thunder33]

Hey cult,

I hear what you're saying on the floor tom. Had some fun with it recently.

Here are some pics of what I did to get the best result (used a sm58 and it worked out great). Does need a little bit of gate in the mix though.

www.puresound.co.za/aok/pics.htm

Hope this helps you.

wasn't your drummer whacking the crap out of that floor tom mic?

do you have any mp3's of this session? I am interested in hearing the outcome. Maybe it is the camera angles but it seems like you have everything miked very closely.


J.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Its the snare...trying to mount the sm57s on top and bottom while keeping the drummer from beating them to death with the sticks.

 

[Thunder33]

Its the snare...trying to mount the sm57s on top and bottom while keeping the drummer from beating them to death with the sticks.

mic the side of the shell. Problem solved.

 

[Scoop]

wasn't your drummer whacking the crap out of that floor tom mic?

do you have any mp3's of this session? I am interested in hearing the outcome. Maybe it is the camera angles but it seems like you have everything miked very closely.


J.

Hi,
The drummer actually behaved quite well and only hit what he was told to hit... Not easy to find trainable drummers nowadays...
Here are some samples of RAW takes from that session... no eq, no comp, nothing.

If they suck please pretend they're awesome, for ego sake ...

 

[LemonTree]

I always have problems with the cowbell

 

[andydeedpoll]

I always have problems with the cowbell

you probably just don't have enough... you can never have too much cowbell...

Andy

 

[Reggie]

I'm gonna have to go with overheads. I am very particular about setting them up, and it takes me like an hour just on them. Deciding spaced pair or XY or upper side angle or etc. and then figuring out where to put the configuration to pick up the best blend of the kit while keeping the kick and snare as centered as possible with the drummer's goofy setup and watching phase cancellations and and and.....phew! Although if I don't feel like doing all that, I can usually get pretty good results from a quick Recorderman setup.

I'll give floor tom honorable mention, because dudes have a hard time hitting it consistently. If it is a buildup or something they have no problem whacking the heck out of it; but if it is a fill or something fast, it's almost like they don't care how hard they hit it as long as they at least touch it with a stick they think they are sounding impressive with their incredible speed!

 

[jkokura]

you probably just don't have enough... you can never have too much cowbell...

Andy

I got a feva'...and the only perscription, is more cowbell...

And Babies...when I'm done with you, you're gonna be wearing gold plated diapers...

Jacob

 

[bubbagump]

Snare is definately hardest as it is the "signature" of the kit and you can spend forever getting it just right. Toms are much more forgiving I find as you can do much more with them int he EQ/compression department where as the snare is hanging out there naked.

 

[Gamelan]

What he said ^

 

[Scrubucket7]

I have the hardest time with the overheads because it can take forever to get them set up right. Floor tom can be tricky, as can snare, but the overheads are so important, and so much harder to get right. Ive tried using just one sp b3 as overhead, but it just doesnt quite do it.

 

[Fishmed]

For me it is the rack toms. I get good sounds once they are set up, but getting them place right can be tricky if the cymbals are too close to the set or if the drummer like to swing the sticks all over the place, hitting the mics.

 

[Halion]

I had great luck micing the floor tom from the top and the bottom. The bottom provided huge tone and low end, allowing me to move the top mic closer to the head, giving me all the attack I want. Lots of stuff to work with in the mix aswell. Try it!

I voted rack toms. Ofcourse you can close mic all of them, but if I'm going for the sound of the entire kit, instead of the sound of every thing seperated (which is what I hear a LOT these days) I'd like to use less mikes, but the toms come out distant and boxy most of the time.

 

[Willybomb]

A method I read about a long time ago and tried, was to walk around the room hitting the floor tom only, as it's the most resonant drum, and then place it where it sounds the most solid and resonates longest, and then set the kit up around that drum. Thanks Stav.

Strangely enough, one of the best snare sounds I got was a piccolo snare from underneath - there was just so much shit, I mean other drums, around that I couldn't come in from the top. The same kit had a crash with a crack halfway to the bell but the drummer was adamant that it was fine, so it got used too. It got ridden a lot, and sounded pretty darm good in the end. The kick copped an ATM25 just outside the front skin, with an RS/Tandy electrec boundary/peudo pzm thing inside near the beater and blended together.

Maybe I just suck, but it ended up getting some (local) radio airplay down here..