guitar-player, not-a-clue wants to use PC for home recording

[Planky]

Hi,

Played in bands etc many years ago.

Back in to guitar after a 20 year absence.

Just got a new Fender Strat as my Xmas present.

Gradually getting my old playing skills back.

Just written about 5 sections to a piece I 'd like to record.

I understand I can do it with PC hardware/software now.

Saw a USB mixing desk and some associated SW in PC World last weekend and thought "Aha".

Can someone help me out here?

I have a keyboard, guitar, mic etc. I want to record my own songs on as many tracks as I can possibly get to make it all sound "rich" with loads of voice multi-tracking too.

I like the idea of doing it the way I used to on tape in the old days.

Lay a track down. Play along with it (through cans, I did everything apart from voice as direct-inject), and just keep adding to it that way.

I think I need some special hardware in order to be able to both play and record at the same time - that's why the USB thing looked interesting - it would work with a laptp for example so I could have a portable studio.

Please just help me here. THere seem to be so many products, and I have not a clue where to start on this venture.

Yours hopefully,

Planky

 

[NEB]

I was you...five months ago. I now have two albums digitally recorded.

Things I did not know.....

You have a souncard in your computer right now capable of recording. Albeit not a very good on. You can plug into the mic input on the back and record with a very simple wave program.

For better sound....use the ' line in' instead of the mic and add a pre-amp to get a line level signal.

For better sound....buy an inexpensive 16 bit card. $30- and do the same. I used a soundblaster SB 16 and got suprisingly good sound. Check out UPC 634479454226 on CDBABY.COM track 2,3 and 4. I had Just a little hiss and a few clicks, but not bad. Track 1 is screwed up on there (long intro version) and will soon be fixed.


For better sound....buy a good recording soundcard. I now use the Delta 44 and it is flawless and crystal clear. No clicks or hiss (with the DMA set high enough). (DMA is a software issue included with the Delta) AArdvark ive heard is equally as good.

16 bit is fine, and actually what you need for CD recording. I wont get into the dithering thing.

You need a CD burner with the appropriate software (comes with it)

By far my biggest discovery was to find the LEAST COMPLICATED editing program you can...other wise you spend more time trying to figure out how to use it then you do playing guitar. Not good.

I used a creative labs wave lab that came with the Sound Blaster card and learned how to adjust volume, delete, copy paste sections, etc. And I just got used to recording with it.

I now use a different wave editer NERO and love it. It is very simple. Not sophisticated enough to do alot of the things the very expensive program allow you to do. But it is all I need. Record-wave analysis-EQ-insert files- some simple effects- compress-etc.
As a musician and not a computer tech or studio engineer...I like things to be easy.

I am no expert, I probly know just enough to be dangerous, but guys on this board were so helpful to me, I am glad to exchange the favor.

Again, there are guys far more qualified than I am on this subject. But I m glad to help just the same.

 

[Gunther]

The Basics:

Start with a decent sound card like...

M-audio Delta44 ($229):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/52398

This gives you 4 audio ins and 4 audio outs to your PC. You can get more than 4 ins / outs if you need it. M-audio makes a card with 10 ins / outs.

*********

Then get some recording software. there are a lot of choices... Cakewalk, Protools, Cubase, n-tracks. Most have a 30 day demo, pro tools even has a free (semi watered down) version that you can use (does not work on win XP.) So D/L the demos and see what you like. You will pay from $40 - $300+ for software depending on your choice.


*************

then get some studio monitors.
Lots of opinions on these… basically they are your ears, designed to reveal every last bit of detail in your mix (including all the sucky stuff). An essential part of any studio (read: dont skimp here).

KrK V8s ($1500?):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/87048

Tannoy Reveals ($800):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/58028

Event PS8 ($600):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/51953

And Yorkville YSM1p ($450):
www.yorkville.com



Then you plug your guitar to one of the 4 inputs (Edit: On second thought, you will probably need a DI box or preamp to get your guitar to line level for the soundcard)... plug the monitors into the outputs, press play on the software and the software records to your hard drive. The software (depending on your choice) usually offers lots of mixing and editing options and can even do compression, reverb, eq and other nice stuff.



---------------------------------------------------------------


More advanced:

Studio LD condenser for those vocals:

Rode NT-1000 ($300):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/51884

Neumann U87 ($2555)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/35407

Check out the mic board for more options....

***********

A microphone pre amp will take a weak mic signal and bring it up the the level needed by your sound card. I use the 2 channel DMP3 (you'll need a better pre if you get a Neumann...):

M-audio DMP-3 ($199)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...6130923877/search/g=live/detail/base_id/59730

**********

Mixers:
Or instead of the mic pre, you can play like the big boys with a mixing board. For recording you need one with direct outs.

An awesome choice, soundcraft M Series M4 12 Channel Mixer ($499)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130923877/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/54336



Then there are effects units (I use the lexicon mpx-110), compressors, and what not to burn your money on. If your not using the effects in the software you will need hardware versions. The general opinion is hardware effects sound better (well that’s my opinion anyway.) software effects suck up CPU power.


Hope this helps ya,
- Gunther

 

[NEB]

Oh yeah...you also need at least 20 gigs of hardrive space, 80 is better......200 megs of RAM..512 is better...if I think of anything else I did not know back then I will let you know, but other guys are probly already on the case.

And with software, get one editing program and stick with it so you dont waste all your time re-learning.

 

[darwinsdoggy]

I agree with NEB about the soundcard. If you're just starting out and simply want to test the waters of digital recording I would either go with the card you have(least favored option)or go out and pick up an inexpensive soundblaster card. At the very least you'll get a decent sound out of it.

As for software, I started with Cakewalk's Guitar Tracks and found it to be the easiest to learn and work with. Lots of options for someone just starting up.






BTW, check your message box for more info...

 

[Gunther]

Yeah, get a soundblaster... if you like to waste your time and money on shit.

 

[darwinsdoggy]

"...Yeah, get a soundblaster... if you like to waste your time and money on shit."



Why spend $300 on a good soundcard if you're not even sure if digital recording is gonna work for you? That's like buying a Les Paul for a kid's first guitar lesson...

 

[Dani Pace]

Planky, I'm in a similar situation myself, trying to make sense of all the digital stuff on the market. Your puter should already have some type of recorder program, it may not be a very good one but it should be enough to give you some idea of how digital recording works. Shop around and check out several software packages before you spend the bucks to get one, some are pretty complicated and can get you confused real fast. I'm looking for something pretty simple too so if I find it I will pass the news along to you. Good luck, Dani

 

[AlChuck]

I heartily concur with darwinsdoggy...

 

[Planky]

Thanks Guys - but more questions

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice.

If I just use the built-in sound card on my computer, do ou think I will be able to use it to both play into my headphones, and allow me to record at the same time.

I want to replicate what I used to have with a tape recorder, where it was easy to stay in time etc. I don't like the idea of having a load of independently recorded files, and then trying to use some software to "mix" them.

If I lay down a piece of backing guitar, I need to hear that backing in order to play lead breaks along with it.

I have got a SoundMax Integratd Digital Audio, it's made by Analog Devices Inc. So do you think I could do the simultaneous record and playback that I need to make it as close to the "feel" of multi-track tape recording as possible?

I understand all the bits about impedance matching, and lines levels etc for the optimum recording session for each input mic/instrument.

The software I have with my computer will allow me to record a single track. So a steer on a web-address for a demo download fo the stuff you talk about would be good...

I agree with what you have said about "ease-of-use". I am a SW consultant, and know the difference something that is easy to pick up and use pretty much straightaway can make to your experience. My aim is to record music, not to own full-featured software. So the speed with whch I can create my first mixes is important to me.

Still keen on all the advice. And thanks everyobody...

Yours,

Planky

 

[NEB]

I have found the downloadable demos to be frustrating.

Yes....you can use your headphones to listen as you record. Just find the line out or speaker out 1/8" on the back of your soundcard and use a cable to get over to your stereo (or PA) and use those speakers. Then use your phone out on your stereo if you please. Or just plug your phones directly into your card.

Someone else help him out with the other stuff.

 

[Planky]

...so what downloadable SW is recommended

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I am just wondering what downloadable demos osftware (preferably timebombe stuff so I can get a feel for the real thing) I should try.

Looked at the Cakewalk site and none of the "Home Recording" stuff seems to be available for free download.

I think I'd like software that can create .wmv or .wma as I can use built in Windows XP CD creation in Media Player to write my audio CDs....

Also - I can only play one instrument at a time. I hate using a mic for vocals and having the tinny electric guitar sound bleed in to the vocal track if I play as I sing. If this is the case, I will only ever record one instrument at a time. I am convinced a conventional mixer is of no use to me _as_a_mixer_. It may be useful for all the EQ, pre-amp etc functions, but no use as a mixer itself. Why do so many folk who replied to this post seem so keen on mixers?

Getting more intrigued as I go on. Thanks everybody for all the advice. It was always Gibson vs. Fender for me the first time round when I palyed guitar. Now it seems it's SOundblaster vs. all-other-vendors....

 

[NEB]

That is getting out of my league, wish I could help. I'll try a little.

I think the N Track site has a simple downloadable file. I did not care for it though.

I know that some of the cards come with recording programs. If you update, buy one that does.

Try going into circuit city or something and read the SB boxes and see which one comes with a recording program. They all should. Even the cheap ones.

It might be worth your while to drop 30 bucks or so just to get your feet wet with a cheap card and a basic program.

Some of the CD burning drivers contain recording programs too, ask one of your buddies that bought a CD burner if you can borrow his driver to download. That is how I got my NERO.

Note: I noticed that my new computer motherboard, 'Athlon' did not look like it would accomodate, does not have the longer slot for a sound blaster, you might look into that. Someone on here probly knows a way around that too.

You can run all your mics into your mixer and fuse them into one channel that goes into your card. Which obviously has its disadvantages, post eq etc.

One more tip, if you have a question with a defined keyword such as ahhh ahhhh, I cant think of one right now, but use the search box up top. It works good.

Another tip. Some of the young guys on here get cocky and rip on inexpensive gear like soundblaster. Take it with a grain of salt. It all works.

But you will probly realize like the rest of us, in time, that you will want all your gear to be the best you can get. Pay off your credit card now, before you start. It just goes on and on.

 

[Gunther]

M-audio makes some good soundcards... definitely better than the sound blaster crap. If you’re unsure and you will probably give this hobby up soon... then a chepie SB card might be ok.

But if you want something your not going to have to throw away down the road, then you will need a card designed for digital recording.
Since you will only need to record 1 or 2 (for stereo) channels at any time, you can get away with a high quality but less expensive sound card such as the…

Audiophile 2496 ($149):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...34114864717/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/52393


With that get a good 2 channel pre-amp like the M-Audio DMP-3 ($200) and you have all you need to get your vocals, keys, guit’s or whatever into your PC (In an exceptionally clean and detailed manner)


As for software, I am not a user of n-tracks but it seems like a good option for me, so I may become one soon (the software I use now is painfully old). N-tracks is cheap… $69 for the full 24bit version. Here is a link

N-tracks:
http://fasoft.com/main.shtm



So that’s a touch over $400 and you have a fully 24bit digital, high quality multi-track recording device with digital effects, compression and editing capability. How can you beat that?

 

[Gunther]

Another tip. Some of the young guys on here get cocky and rip on inexpensive gear like soundblaster. Take it with a grain of salt. It all works.

I have owned many SoundBlaster products in my life (still do)... if your playing games they are great, for recording they are not.

Planky can spend his money as he will, I am only offering my opinion / suggestions... but if the guy cares about the sound of un-amplified electric guitar strings bleeding into the VOX, then I think he is going to care about the large quality difference between a gaming card (recording in 16 bit) and a one designed specifically for recording in 24 bit.

Maybe I misread his post, but he seems like an older guy... I might have been wrong to assume he did not want to play around with crap and wanted to start right away with a good set of tools.

I am not suggesting he spend $1000's, but I do suggest he spend enough to get a decent reliable tool that does the job effectively and without frustration.

 

[NEB]

I guess it depends on your intentions. If one only wants to archive his music, or create a decent demo, or play around with amatur recording, have some fun etc. Then the cheap cards are fine.

But if you intend to go pro, record, publish, and promote your music and expect it to be accepted into the cut throat world of the music business, then you do indeed need the best there is.

In retrospect, had I known where I would have been today with my music, I would have went straight for the best, right off. But only after using the cheap did I understand 'why' the best was the best. Sometimes you have to crawl before you can fly.

I am a better musician and recording engineer after having spent many hours trying to get mediocre gear to sound better.

 

[lascalaboy]

I notice someone sadi you need at least 20GB hard drive (I only have 10 free..) and 200 RAM.. does the processor matter for recording 4 tracks simultateously?

 

[manning1]

planky - try powertracks demo from pgmusic.com - only 29 bucks.
i love it. 48 digital audio tracks plus tons of sequencing and fx features.
its all you need to do a great song. the rest is how you engineer a song.
i would recommend using at least a 2ghz (i like amd) processor for a modern DAW based studio.

 

[brummygit]

Planky

Alot of in-expensive soundcards will now come with all of the software you'll need to get started. I personally started with the Novation Speedio (and still have it!) which comes with a bunch of software including Live! and Cubasis VST. It cost me £180 (dunno what that is in dollars but have a look around)
There really is no point going totally over the top with mixers/monitors/etc yet. I'd probably say (for the time being) that for the simple stuff you seem to be looking to do, the above mentioned Novation Speedio with its software, and a decent pair of headphones (those big, enclosed ones are great) will do you fine.
As for Cubasis, its really about as easy as it gets, and will also let you get your tunes you record into a more professional package if you decide you want to take things further (ie, Cubase SX).
Failing that, a hard disk recorder (eg Zoom MRS1266CD or Tascam) will do you very very well - drum machines/soundfx/guitar fx all built in, and VERY easy to get a simple track down within about 30 mins of getting it out the box.

 

[Ta2dguitrslingr]

I've been trying out this "home recording" stuff myself for about 3 months, and still have so much to learn about it. I have found a few software programs that I think are pretty killer (At least for my level of experience). Acoustica has a 16 track mixing sequencer that I use called "MixCraft". Totally easy to use, and you can always download a plethora of VST plug-ins and effects to use w/ it.
You can also record while you listen. Even render the final mixdown to mp3 or wav if you like.
I've tried FruityLoops only to be left scattered. I'm trying out a couple other programs like the Sonic Foundry ACID Pro 3, and GoldWave 5.10 as a wav editor.
I'd like to check out the GuitarTracks Pro eventually, but I'd like to get some feedback on that one. Anyways, I hope I was at least some help.
good luck to ya