guitar help

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Tyler22

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alright i have been fighting and fighting for awhile to get a good disorted guitar sound and i just cant do it!!!

heres my setup and i have alot of questions........i have a CRATE GFX 212T Combo and CRATE 4X12 CAB......i ran a cable to my closet(which has the cab in it) and i put foam everywhere in the closet(bad idea?)......

i am micing it with a sm57 or a sm47(experimenting with both) and cant get a good sound with either of them.....

then from there i run the mic to my Digitech vx400 pedal...then into a Realistic Stero mixing console(its just a stereo mixer nothing fancy) so i can adjust levels from there........ and then into a m-audio delta 44 audio card.....

if i have mentioned anything above that i should take out of the setup please tell me........the sound i am getting now is like a distorted guitar but it sounds really muffled like i am hearing it from the other side of a lake......

i have studio monitors and they arent lying lol.........anyways i would appreciate and advice....thanks

p.s.
ran a search but nothing seemed to help me
 
Your biggest problem I can almost guarantee is going to be that you don't have a good preamp and that you are running the mic through a stomp box AND its unbalanced. What you need to do is get yourself an inexpensive but good preamp. Give the M-Audio DMP3 a look. They have been rated very highly and you will find that alot of people around here have them and love them. You will run your SM57 (or 47) into the DMP3 set your input level there, and run that into the Delta.

Secondly, you will find that you will almost never get good results micing an amp that "sounds good in the room". Most of the time the amp tone will sound nothing like what you intend it to when you are in the room with it but will sound great recorded. A couple tips for recording distorted guitars:

1) Less is more in terms of gain. Never slam your gain control to max as it will come out a fizzy and mushy mess recorded.
2) You will almost ALWAYS need more midrange then you think (and since you are using a crate this will be determined more so by your "shape control". You will want a heavier-in-the-mids sound for recording so set your shape control accordingly.
3)I find that you will usually need very little treble when recording a miced amp. Alot of high end makes a guitar tone thin and fizzy sounding.
4) USE YOUR EARS! And your monitors. Adjust your tone settings according to what you hear coming through the monitors and NOT what is coming from the amp.
5) The 57 will be your best bet most likely. I usually start from the outside of the speaker and work in to find the sweet spot. Once you're there, you're there. You will know it.
6) And last but deffinately not least, ask yourself this question....How will the sound fit in the mix? You can have a great tone but if it doesnt work with the other instruments it is useless. So you will always want to check your tone with the rest of the elements in the mix.

Hopefully this will help you get started. Crate is deffinately recordable, so don't be put down by people saying that Crate is garbage. For the most part....yeah I would deffinately choose something else. lol. But you can deffinately get good tones out of those things. I recorded a full length for a local band using a Crate GX212 and a GFX210 for cleans. Guess what? Great tone. Good luck.

the kid
 
producerkid said:
Crate is deffinately recordable, so don't be put down by people saying that Crate is garbage. For the most part....yeah I would deffinately choose something else. lol. But you can deffinately get good tones out of those things. I recorded a full length for a local band using a Crate GX212 and a GFX210 for cleans. Guess what? Great tone.
Click to expand...

Funny, because the first thing that came to my mind in the post was, "Huh? Recording a Crate?"

I owned solid state amps and digital guitar processors when I started playing guitar because of the price and features but after 17 years of playing I believe that a good tube amp will always sound better than the best solid state, especially for distortion. I'd say that the main issue with your setup is the amp and digital fx pedal. Get a good tube amp (or preamp at least - ADA MP-1's are dirt cheap used and have a lot of tone).

If you can't get a tube amp then work on dialing in the best tone on the Crate with the SM57 in front of the cab and keep moving both the amp and the mic around while playing with the Crate's EQ until you get something useable. Definately take it out of the closet. One of the best distortion sounds I've gotten was in a large room with shag-carpeting and high wood beam ceilings with a SM57 an about 2 inches off axis of the speaker.

Next I'd take producerkid's advice and get a decent preamp for the mics.
 
Well, yes, as I stated I would MUCH rather have something else on hand but if all he has is Crate, he needs to be able to work with that. Much easier to dial in a good Crate tone and buy an inexpensive preamp then buy a new rig and use a radio shack mixer. lol
 
I truely don't think your going to get a good distorted sound with your current setup. I am willing to guess most people hear are going to feel the same. Crates are bedroom practice amps, not recording amps. This is something about solidstate distortion that is so nasty.
 
hey thanks alot everyone.....ill give a look into that preamp.....would it help to get a cab that is good for recording? or change my amp completely?
 
You need a head and cab that sound good period. What sounds good should record good.
 
I have recorded successfully with crate. I think they sound jsut fine for home recording. The one thing about crate is they really push alot of bottom end. I have had success with backing off the "low" almost 100%. but you'll need to try what you like. I would also agree whole heartedly with the other guy that suggested cutting back your gain. I would suggest maybe even up to 75%, meaning your knob would be between 9 and 11 o'clock.

you're 2x12 may give you better tone thatn the 4x12(bottom heavy) and make sure your micing the top speaker rather than the bottom, pointing the mic at a angle like the above writer mentioned, but pointing it at a angle away from the other speakers(towards the outside of the cab, not the inside).

good luck
 
Crates push a lot of low-end because they make up for the low volumes they are played on. I guess the argument is in what you consider "home recording". I would also have to say I disagree with micing the highest speaker. Mic the ones that sounds the best and make sure you get the cabinet off the floor.
 
Shameless self-plug ...

If you go to the Mojo Pie forum at www.mojopie.com , there is an interesting article on this very phenomenon that will very likely shed a great deal of light on your current dilemna if you read the fifth article down (right after the Lynx review).
 
Ding Ding DIng we have a winner. I didn't want to say it because I was trying to be nice, but like the article says "YOUR AMP SUCKS". I will just let it all out now. No distorted Crate Amp will ever sound good recorded. There I said it.....
 
chessrock said:
Shameless self-plug ...

If you go to the Mojo Pie forum at www.mojopie.com , there is an interesting article on this very phenomenon that will very likely shed a great deal of light on your current dilemna if you read the fifth article down (right after the Lynx review).
Click to expand...
Right on... and that's the truth too. :)
 
What is amazing is that is said over and over and over and over, and people still don't get it.
 
chadsxe said:
What is amazing is that is said over and over and over and over, and people still don't get it.
Click to expand...


to each their own. I know what i have heard based on personal experience, not what others say. Hands on. They definantely dont suck. they do take some time to get what you want out of them, but once you figure it out, they do not suck.

I dont always just believe what "everone" says. If you have to record other peoples music, then you owe it to yourself and your customer to know how to make it sound good. Your reputation will follow. If someone wants you to record their band, and the guitarist are using CRATE, do you embarras them and tell them their amps suck, or do you find a way to make them sound good.

I jsut started working on a project where the guitarist uses a '85 solid state peavey 1x12, 50 watt combo with some pedals. So far I am very impressed with it. It sounds great, and different, which i like to hear. I dont think you would find many possitive reviews on that amp or set-up.

just my opinion.
 
i have a mackie 808m mixer........i wanna run it with my

mic....sm57.........should i use a preamp with that????.....

what excatly does a preamp do??

do i need to use it all the time?
 
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