Guitar Cab Mic'ing.

  • Thread starter Thread starter zenabi
  • Start date Start date
Also, with exception of using a low pass, and a high pass you shouldnt need eq whatsoever.

Whatever sound/tone/eq you want from your head and cabinet should be achieved there, and only there IMO.

Also, if it sounds like crap....it is.

Compressing a bad sound only makes a bad sound have less dynamics...useless.

It needs to be good from the start.

-Finster
 
I think most replies here have the same theme. The better the sound before it's recorded, the better it will record. I too, have had good luck with the POD. For heavy rhythm parts, if you want a HUGE sound, record the part twice through two different amps and pan to opposite sides. If you don't have access to a second amp, use your setup but change your sound slightly for the second take. The doubled part combined with slightly different tones creates a 'wall of amps' type feel. As far as listening to the sound at the speaker, I like to isolate the cabinet and listen at the board so I can get a true sense of what the mic is hearing without risking my hearing. High volume tends to mask problems such as poor eq and unwanted types of distortion from the human ear. That's why bad bands play as loud as possible :D
 
HangDawg said:
I don't know if you've read this but I sure there are some in this thread that haven't. http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

There it is. All you need to know about recording distorted guitar. And pay attention to the part that says you have to get yer head in there if for nothing else to find which speaker is the best.
Click to expand...
if you want to take that literally for loud guitar... go at it. :confused: you won't be doing that very many times. I wouldn't recommend anyone take that advice literally without some form of hearing protection.

anyways, it really doesn't matter what you hear. what matters is what the mic hears. there are other safer ways to map the speaker.
 
xfinsterx said:
Also as Farview said, youll need a better pre, perhaps a dmp3 would cut the mustard.
Click to expand...
He's looking for a guitar preamp, the dmp3 is a mic preamp. Pod XT or Mesa Boogie makes one I can't remember the name of and the Triaxis.
 
Red Dog Studios said:
Also when you find a good spot for the 57, you might wanna place your condenser mic a few feet (3'-to-5') back and mix that mic in with the mix. you can get some good sounds that way too. one time i recorded a amp with a 57 on the grill and a condenser mic in the next room with the door open and i mixed that mic in a lil and got a pretty good "roomy" or "life-like" sound from that. but if you mix to much of it in, it will just sound like someone playing a guitar down the hall or something lol.
Click to expand...

I agree with Red Dog. I was struggling with this not too long ago. I found that what worked for me was an LDC about 5' away from the cabinet. I put a couple mics up close and blend them in but the heart of the recording is with the LDC. In my situation, the cabinet has a mixed pair of speakers and an open mic. It's a terrific sounding cabinet but micing up the individual speakers just didn't get the job done.
 
Good Ideas on this thread...

Having a friend help you can really make a difference--he can move the mike around and tweak the amp controls while you sit in the control room and listen to the sound. It's like adjusting a TV antenna!

Also, mess with amp at different volumes (assuming you can crank it up in your place). Speakers and amps tend to have an optimum volume, the volume where they sound the best. Too loud and you'll probably start to pick up vibrations within the cabinet and too much breakup of the speaker. To quiet and it will sound lifeless. The speakers need to be moving.

And listen to the advice about midrange--distorted guitars are all about midrange. Too much bass and it sounds muddy, too much high end and it sounds like a bee buzzing.

This is a personal preference, but I like compressing the guitar before it hits the preamp stage. I'm partial to the Boss CS-3 (I think that's the model) because of the tone control. That pedal gives me the control to hit the amp with the right amount of input volume and the right amount of high end. Used judiciously, it can really smooth out the sound, and give you a powerful, clear sound with less distortion.

I hope these suggestions help.
 
Every time I see this post I feel sorry for the person posting. Usually the only answers given are the extremely weak..."Put your ear by the speaker" response. :P Let me share a tried and true method for placing stereo mics on a guitar cabinet so we can remove the guesswork, shall we?

I done quite a bit of work for artists on the " Metal Blade " label so I guess I can chime in

Actually a lot of this came from following around the UBER God Of Metal Engineering : Bill Metoyer. ( check the back of your records, if you dont see his name on anything, you need a trip to the record store )

Make DAMN sure your guitar is in tune, and intonated properly. Different intonations and even VERY slightly different, can make whole separate flavors of distortion so get it as close as you can. If you know the difference in distortion sound between a 24 3/4" scale guitar neck and a 25 1/2" one then you know what Im saying.

Now on to your preamp, or preamp section of your head, depending on what you got. In most cases, metal guitar tones come from a LOT, a WHOLE LOT less ( thats right LESS ) distortion/preamp gain than you would use live. For riffs and chord changes, the REAL heaviness comes from dynamics, the fact that it gets LOUDER when your pic hits the string than when the string is just resonating.
It seems obvious but its not really. You need to MAXIMIZE the dynamic range at this stage because from here on out, the signal is going to be compressed and degraded in all sorts of ways. In most cases the gain should be about where, when if you SOFTLY strum a chord it actually comes out clean. Transistor amps/pedals may not do this ( some will ) which is another reason tubes are usually perferred for this type of thing.
Now, tone. Scooped mids, cranked bass and treble right? WRONG. For recording you will need a LOT more mids than you normally would for live. You need to be heard. The way our ears work, we take most of our cues from the midrange. Get as much body in the tone as you can....not bottom, body. You can always scoop it out later if you must. Like the lumberjack says " always cut long" right ?

Ok, on to the power amp or the power section of your head if you use one. Here is where you start the dynamic reduction process. You want to get a sound with enough sustain to work, but being careful whether or not you want to HEAR power tube saturation or speaker distortion. In some cases you want to, in some cases you dont. Get a good sound that you ENJOY. Make sure ( if you can at this point in the recording) that it fits with the other tracks. You will probably use a speaker that you wouldnt like live for this process. A speaker with more mid's than normal, like a celestion Vintage 30 or maybe a Kendrick. Greenbacks are good live, but sometimes lose that all important midrange on tape. Watch the speaker distortion, get a power level that makes COMFORTABLE dynamics for you. Errr on the LESS compressed side so you gotta work just a WEE bit harder than normal to crunch it up.

Now, stand in the room with the amp. Get your head moving around until you find the one speaker that sounds better than the others, or maybe just a real good spot where it seems to sound best. I am assuming we are NOT going after a " room " sound at this point. Stick a 57 RIGHT there, where your ear was.
Now, at the console, FIRST verify that that is *roughly* the sound you heard out there. Be sure levels are where they should be etc...no eq at this point on the console. Have someone move the mic back towards or away from the cab ( or do it yourself with headphones ). You are doing two things with this:

1) changing the ratio of direct( from the speaker ) vs. reflected ( yeah you might be only a few inches from the cab but the room still is playing a HUGE part) sound coming into the mic

2)changing the amount of dynamic compression that the actual volume of the speaker is causing in the mic's diaphragm, ribbon or voice coil. You are changing the BEHAVIOUR of the sound here.

Once you like the placement of your mic, its time to get REAL tricky.

ONE mic is almost never enough, but with two or more, PHASE CANCELLATION rears its ugly head. But we got a trick for that right?

Here comes

Put the guitar down. Make it make noise, or take the cable off and stick it on something that will make noise. This noise has to be stable and constant....a fender strat's hum is perfect for this assuming it has some midrange harmonics to it.

Using your console's meters, bring that noise up to wherever your "zero" is. This will probably require a LOT of mic pre gain so make sure your speakers are turned down. DONT let anyone touch the guitar or whatever the noise source is. Once youve got the signal to zero, mute the channel

Next go into the room with the amp, and put another mic about equidistant from the speaker as the first mic is...Be careful not to disturb Mic #1.

Back in the control room, bring Mic #2 up to zero

Now, VERY IMPORTANTLY, pull Mic#2's fader ( NOT mic pre ) down to -infinity. Unmute Mic#1. Slowly push Mic#2's fader up towards zero.

If the volume at your final LeftRight Mix buss on your console goes UP, you need to flip the phase of mic #2. If your console doesnt have a phase switch, make an out of phase cable. Just reverse pins 2 and 3 on an XLR, and make DAMN sure you label that cable from now on so you dont screw up some overheads or something.
Remember if the volume goes UP flip the phase

If the volume goes down we can proceed...keep flipping the phase until the volume goes DOWN when they are at their zeros.

Now pick up a bat, knife or gun. Whatever you are best with. Threaten anyone in the control room with it and say " DO NOT touch that guitar !!!! I am gonna have headphones on at extreme gain levels and am risking it all so you can have a good guitar sound ". Wave the weapon around menacingly until you are SURE that they get the point. Kick them out and lock the door if you cant trust em...now is NOT the time for gags.

now go out to the amp with headphones on. You will hear a hiss or buzz or hum...make sure the hum in the phones is louder than the one you can hear directly from the amp.

DO NOT cough, you will blow your eardrums right into each other. Becareful of any noise that may be present.

Now, EXTREMELY carefully, move Mic#2 back and forth, left and right. SLOWLY

You should hear a whoosh, much like a flanger pedal would make.

The trick here is to find the spot where the LEAST noise is coming out of the headphones. Keep moving the mic you will find it.

have you caught the theory yet? We are looking for the spot where the two mics are THE MOST in phase with each other. If one is phase flipped, then at the most in phase spot, they will nearly cancel each other out. FIND THAT SPOT

once you got it, take off the phones and go back to the console.

Turn both mic preamps gains ALL the way down. Put fader one at the unity position on your console. Play your guitar and turn up the mic pre gain until you hit zero. Now mute Mic #1. Now turn fader 2 to the unity position. Bring up Mic pre #2 until you hit zero.

edit : OOPS!!!!!!
I forgot, tho you prolly figured it out. Unflip the phase on mic #2 at this point so that both mics are IN phase. Sorry about that

Unmute #1 and mess with the faders. Those two faders now become the BEST EQ money can buy! Turn up one then the other, experiment to your heart's content. Once you got a sound you like, buss them together and send em to a track...or keep em separate if you want some choices later...

revel in your glorious new tone!

Aaron Carey
StudioZ/Pipelineaudio
www.studiozpro.com
 
VJ..... holy crap, thanks man!!!!!!!!! :D

It would of taken me 20 years to figure that one out.
 
No problem, it's a killer post I found here a few years back. I can get killer fat tracks using that technique and a pair of guitar tracks panned left and right.
 
rather then going deaf!

yeh sticking ur ear 2 inches from a blaring 12 inch speaker gives a good idea of what ur gonna hear.. until 2 minutes later when ur tone deaf for the next 4 hours....
try this
crank ur amp up pretty close to full.. dont plug in ur guitar.. now hook a mic up to ur pc/multi track.. and moniter threw headphones... move the mic around the speaker... and u'll hear at a certain point.. all the out of phase sorta sounds stop... SWEET SPOT! it worrks 99% of the time
 
sorry.. i just re-read what i wrote... that is a good way.. for quickly getting 1 mic sounding sweet on a cab... its not always perfect.. but when near enough is good enough.. it helps
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top