Groundbreaking productions

[Baldur]

nOOb here!

Ok, here's the deal:
Next tuesday I am starting on an essay entitled "Music and technology", and I figured this would be a good place to ask for some info (sorry if this doesn't belong under "recording techniques").

What I'm looking for, is your top 5 historical milestones in terms of production and technology. In other words, I want songs that, for their time, were technologically groundbreaking and influential. I'm only covering the 60's and up.

I am to analyze 3-4 songs, so any help would be great!

 

[fraserhutch]

nOOb here!

OK, I just gotta ask, have you bought yourself a gate yet?

 

[Red Dog Studios]

The Beatles album, "Sgt Pepper" Produced by George Martin.

 

[chessrock]

You didn't state a genre.

Are we talkin' rock here?

Hmmm. Milestones ... Milestones.

You can't really talk about it in terms of "songs," because, ya' see, at the time, we had what are called "albums." Just messin' with ya.

In the mid/late 60's I'd say "Pet Sounds" and "Sergeant Pepper" definitely set the tone for the era in terms of production value. Something very significant happened at that time. A paradign shift in the way music was tracked mixed, mastered, etc. To try and get in to the specifics of it all would entail a much longer post than anyone has time for right now. But suffice it to say that those two records were big ... and the ability to multi-track for the first time was at the head of it, moreless.

In the 70's it would have to be Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon and basically everything else they did. Led Zepelin had some pretty stunning accomplishments as well, for the time. This was during an era where multi-track recording was mature, moreless, and people were really pushing it and exploring it's limits.

1980's ... ya got me. Actually, that's a tough call, although I might lean a little towards the Police records as being standouts. Nothing leaps out at me, though, from that era as being truly "defining" in terms of production value. I'll have to think on it. There's probably something very obvious I'm missing. I look at the 80's as being a transitional period. Multi-tracking had reached it's maturity ... and digital recording was just being introduced. CD players very quickly became the standard, and it was an awkward transition in to digital, from both the recording side and the listening side.

And in the 90's we had Okay Computer by Radio Head, which I think has moreless set a new standard for rock records in the era of digital recording. Someone basically figured out, with this record, how to get the most out of what digital recoridng and mixing offered. In a way, the 90's represent a time when the digital and analog mediums came to a compromize, rather than one taking over the other. Same trend occured with tubes, transformers, and everything else we liked about the older recording technology. They became cool again, and we could appreciate them without having to totally revert back to them.

.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

You gotta look at albums and not individul songs, I think, since it's usually the album's production that's groundbreaking, not just a single song from it. If you're willing to look at it that way, here's my list in more-or-less chronological order:

Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Walter Carlos - Swicthed On Bach
Clash - London Calling
Michael Jackson - Thriller

G.

 

[invisiblenemies]

Outlandos d'Amour (Police) was produced a little better than Damaged (Black Flag)?

Is that what you're saying, Chess?

 

[invisiblenemies]

Michael Jackson - Thriller

Good call, Glen.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

1980's ... ya got me. Actually, that's a tough call, although I might lean a little towards the Police records as being standouts. Nothing leaps out at me, though, from that era as being truly "defining" in terms of production value. I'll have to think on it. There's probably something very obvious I'm missing. I look at the 80's as being a transitional period. Multi-tracking had reached it's maturity ... and digital recording was just being introduced. CD players very quickly became the standard, and it was an awkward transition in to digital, from both the recording side and the listening side.

Ah, you overlooked the one major production paradigm shift of the 80's...video. As much as I personally absolutely despise music video - music is meant to be listened to, not watched - I have to admit that MTV is what the 80s will be rememberd for in the music and production industries. Hence my grudging listing of The Gloved One's "Thriller" the high water mark for music and music video production in the 80s. Again, this is not an endorsement for that stinkin' pervert, just a recognition of history.

G.

 

[Ford Van]

60's, The Doors
70's, Boston
80's, hmmmmmmm...SO many great sounding records! I'll agree with MJ out of convienience sake.
90's, Kings X
00's, nevermind...it is all overcompressed crap!

 

[noisewreck]

00's, nevermind...it is all overcompressed crap!

Only in the mainstream (pop, rock, etc) and some of the club oriented electronica, but if you go a bit further down to the underground and experimental stuff it's not.

Fennez, Autechre, Matmos etc, etc.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

00's, nevermind...it is all overcompressed crap!

Then we need to identify the milestone or watermark production that tags this paradigm shift.

Nobody said that what we picked had to be good or that we had to like it (hell, I picked MJ, didn't I?) What Baldur is looking for is "historical milestones in terms of production and technology". Perhaps the onset of overcompressolimiting in the past decade or so is a historical milestone that needs to be recognized. That doesn't mean that it will last forever, it just means that it was an important development that changed the sound of music production (for better or worse).

The question is, who's donkey do we pin this tail on?

G.

 

[chessrock]

Not necessarily disagreeing on the Thriller thing ...

But I am curious as to what some of you might feel makes it "defining" from a production standpoint.

I think it was well-produced. No doubt about that. But I guess I just look at Thriller as being a monumental record in terms of sales, obviously, and for how many successful singles it produced and things like that. But from a purely production standpoint, did it really break new ground? Just curious as to what some of you might think. I mean, heck, I didn't even think it sounded dramatically different from Off the Wall (a better record, overall, if you ask me).
.

 

[timboZ]

60's - Zappa/Mothers - We’re Only In It For The Money
70's / 80's - Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
70's / 80's - The Clash - London Calling
80's / 80's - Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bullocks
80's Pink Floyd - The Wall
90's Dave Matthews Band - Under The Table and Dreaming
00's U2 - How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb

Also some Iggy Pop and David Bowie

 

[Baldur]

Introducing oneself as a n00b is probably the wrong way to go .

Anyways, thanks a lot for your input and please keep them suggestions coming.

I know that productions are usualy considered in albums, but for this essay, I have to analyze 3-4 SONGS that represent some form of productional innovation. You know, like the introduction of the Mellotron in The Beatles' "Strawberry fields", the drum machine beats in Sly and the Family Stone's "Somebody's Watching You", or just the innovative sound of Radiohead's "Paranoid Android".

So if you could pick one song from these groundbreaking albums that would best represent the album's technical and productional innovations, which one would it be?

Again, thanks a lot for your help.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

In terms of production milestones - Donald Fagen - The Nightfly.... one of the (if not THE) first all-digital productions.....

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

But I am curious as to what some of you might feel makes it "defining" from a production standpoint.

"Thriller" has been long considered to be to the Sgt. Pepper of music video production, a standrd in music video quality that had not been reached until it came out and has arguably not been surpassed since.

Again, the music is not my cup of tea, and in itself is not necessarily broundbreaking in production or style. And as I've already said, music video is a genre almost completely wasted on me; I have no use for 99.99992% of it.

However, I don't think there is any denying that the advent of MTV in the early 80s was a seminal moment that shook the foundations of the entire music production industry in it's effect on both music content and production, and forever married (for better or worse) music and video, making them almost as inseperable as electricity and magentism.

As "Thriller" is/was the high water mark for music video production in the pivitol early '80s, I think it's almost a no-brainer for inclusion on a short list of milestone productions in recent music history.

IMHMVETC,

G.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

So if you could pick one song from these groundbreaking albums that would best represent the album's technical and productional innovations, which one would it be?

Your teacher/professor needs to take the needle out of their arm .

If you insist:

Beach Boys - Good Vibrations (Pet Sounds). It's use of unique instrumentation (theremin and cello syncopation, anyone?) combined with the intricate vocal arrangements.

Beatles - Lucy In The Sky (Sgt. Pepper). Creative uses of many organic multitrack sources combined with variable speed playback to give the psychedelic sound of the next seven years.

Walter Carlos - Prelude and Fugue No. 2 in C Minor (Switched On Bach). The first modern, serious, full-fledged tour de force recording of electronic synthesizer as a serious instrument and not just a special effect sounds curiosity. Modern music would never be the same again.

Clash - London Calling (London Calling). The anthem song that hearlded the simultaneous death of the horrid over-produced '70s *and* the disco era, and planted the flag firmly on the raw energy of "the new wave", which would later go on to father punk, grunge and garage, three of the largest trends in rock of the 80s, 90s, and 00s.

Michael Jackson - Thriller (Thriller). See my other post.

G.

 

[lasagne]

On the Sergeant Pepper album, on Being for the benefit of Mr Kite George Martin had Geoff Emerick cut up a tape of fairground sounds into one inch pieces, which got thrown into the air and stuck back together again at random, creating the swooping, swirling fairground noise in the background.

I suppose that was fairly innovative ie the first of it's kind. Probably the last as well.

And by the way, of course it's 25 years today since M*** Ch***** shot John...............bastard.

 

[corban]

To be a stickler, Good Vibrations wasn't off Pet Sounds, although I would agree that it best qualifies as the groundbreaker from them.

As for Sgt. Pepper, I might argue that A Day in the Life was a groundbreaker, particularly with its innovative use of orchestra and unique song form, or a song like Mr. Kite with its tape splicing and samples. Of course this is just a matter of picking one from an entire album, which is tough, since it's the entire album that is regarded in such esteem.

Since we're talking about groundbreaking productions since the 1960s, shouldn't there be mention of Phil Spector's Wall of Sound? I hate to be Walters here, but it was certainly groundbreaking, and was featured prominently in the popular music at the time.

 

[RezN8]

Yes

For the 80s I would take a serious look at 90125 by Yes. They used a lot of new technology on that album and I remember it being a milestone as far as recording goes.

I agree with the others -- Sgt. Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, etc.

Cheers, Rez