Grace 101 vs. Summit Audio 2BA-221

  • Thread starter Thread starter PHILANDDON
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Dot said:
I don't think I'd recommend the 101 for that. The 101 is very glassy, transparent. And if you want any kind of "old time" sound, you're not going to get it from the 101.

I'll give some some recommendations in various price ranges.

Rane MS-1b - about $150. Surprisingly good preamp, especially for acoustic gtr. Has similar characteristics to the John Hardy M-1 - to the point that I've dubbed it a Jr. John Hardy. The MS-1b rolls off around 50Hz - which is fine anyway, since you're not recording bass or kick drum with it. And while it's not quite as full as the M-1, the MS-1b will give you a good 60-70% of the sound of an M-1 on acoustic gtr and vocals. *Add an RNLA in the chain as an option.

FMR RNP - around $475. Good dual, preamp/DI for the money. One of the few mid-level units I recommend. [ the 101 is another one, but not in this case.] The RNP has a slightly vintage sound with a little bit of color. Nice, airy high-end. *Add an RNLA in the chain as an option.

John Hardy M-1 - around $950 - IMO, one of the best preamps for acoustic stringed instruments - especially if you're tracking any kind of music in the neighorhood of bluegrass, folk, Americana, traditional country. If you want a preamp for life, the M-1 is a good investment. *Add an RNLA in the chain as an option.

*The FMR RNLA - around $225 - is a limiter that has some color. Running through any of those preamps into the RNLA will give you more "old time" vintage flavor. You'll also have more options on the amount of gain you use on the preamp - giving more sonic versatility - if you run it into an RNLA.

My 2¢.
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Dan, you prefer a Jonh Hardy to a nice tube preamp for my application? Thanks.
 
SonicAlbert said:
$500-600 for one channel is not high end. It's out of the budget category, but not into high end. High end generally starts at about $1,000 per channel. At least in my opinion.

Which is not to say that you can't get some really nice preamps starting in the $500 and up range, you can.
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SA, we've had this discussion before. IMO your $1,000 reference is a few years outdated.

All of the manufacturers below sell units that retail for less than $1,000 per channel. The two channel Hardy M1, for example, can be had for about $1,600.

Neve
DAV
Sebatron
John Hardy
Langevin
UA
True
Speck
Daking
Hamptone
Davisound
Focusrite (including the Red)
Millennia
Grace
Groove Tubes
OSA
Apogee
Vintech
 
PHILANDDON said:
Dan, you prefer a Jonh Hardy to a nice tube preamp for my application? Thanks.
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Phil, what kind of sound are you wanting? What style of music?
 
Also, on this $1000 mark for high-end pres - that's about where the entry price starts. Because you'll need some kind of chasiss and power supply. But as more channels are added it usually reduces the price per channel. For example, you can get API 512C preamp modules for around $650, but you're going to first need to invest around $400 for an API 500-6B lunchbox.

Many of these "high end" mic pres aren't as expensive as you might think. Buying single-channel units is by far the most expensive way to do it – because you're paying for the power supply every time. Once you get past the cost of the power supply and start adding on more channels – things start to look a little different.

API 512C is around $650 dollars per channel
Millennia HV-3D @ $3500 for 8 channels is around $437 per channel
Sebatron vmp-4000e @ $1600 for 4 channels is $400 per channel
Focusrite ISA428 @ $1600 for 4 channels is $400 per channel

More on this at Dont waste your $ on "mid-level" mics pres and channel strips.
 
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Yes, when you get into four and eight channel units, often the price drops significantly below $1000. The API 3124 is around $600 per channel, and the Daking four channel pre is only about $450 per channel. There are many other examples where the $1000 mark is irrelelevent.

Of course, if you ARE spending $1000+ per channel, you had better be getting a very good preamp.
 
tdukex said:
IMO high end is a reference to quality, not price.
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what I was implying was that there arent any in existance in that price range that are of quality enough to be deemed high end.
 
They may not float your boat, Ray, but some people do like Dakings and API's. I'm one of them.
 
littledog said:
They may not float your boat, Ray, but some people do like Dakings and API's. I'm one of them.
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yeah, but there ARENT ANY for 600 bucks. and no, they do not float my boat. but that wasnt the point. I tend not to care what anyone else likes. ;) the query was 600 bucks=high end. I responded by saying that there wasnt anything for that price that is high end ,quality wise.

anyway, this is PHILLANDONS thread. time to exit stage left.
 
BigRay said:
yeah, but there ARENT ANY for 600 bucks. and no, they do not float my boat. but that wasnt the point. I tend not to care what anyone else likes. ;) the query was 600 bucks=high end. I responded by saying that there wasnt anything for that price that is high end ,quality wise.

anyway, this is PHILLANDONS thread. time to exit stage left.
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Maybe one of us is misinterpreting the discussion. I thought the argument was can a $600 per channel preamp be considered high end. Obviously high end is subjective, and one engineer's high is another's crap.

But my point was that at $450 per channel for the Daking, and $600 per channel for the API, you CAN get preamps in that price range that some people would consider high end, (admittedly, requiring you to buy them in a package of four at a time to get that price.) So unless you are debating the validity of my street prices, I'm not sure what we are arguing about this time! :p
 
BigRay said:
yeah, but there ARENT ANY for 600 bucks. and no, they do not float my boat. but that wasnt the point. I tend not to care what anyone else likes. ;) the query was 600 bucks=high end. I responded by saying that there wasnt anything for that price that is high end ,quality wise.

anyway, this is PHILLANDONS thread. time to exit stage left.
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What about the DAV BG1, isn't that way below $600/channel? Many people consider that to be an excellent mic pre.
 
boingoman said:
What about the DAV BG1, isn't that way below $600/channel? Many people consider that to be an excellent mic pre.
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Yeah, it is the bomb.700 for two channels. Too bad I dont even know what this thread is about anymore. :p
 
pres

Not to mention the FOUR channel api 3124+ for $2400 or the Prtico stuff, etc... , there are ALOT of great pres for under $1000 a channel.
 
Discussions regarding the $1,000 per channel price point must take into account the number of preamps involved. As has been stated, the price per channel gets lower as the number of pres increase.

But even if the number of preamps in the discussion were agreed to, say two channel preamps above and below $1,000 per channel, there are other issues that may make comparisons skewed. For example, some pres have stereo summing busses, DI inputs, multiple input impedance settings, dual outputs per channel, VU meters that can be switched to read gain or output, tube v. solid state, trannies vs. no trannies, gain and output controls, bass rolloffs with adjustable corner frequencies, etc. Having some or many of these features certainly adds to the cost per channel when compared to a preamp that only has the bare minimum of features (mic input, gain, 48v phantom, polarity reversal and single output).
 
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