Got an Epiphone, now what to do with it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dolemite
  • Start date Start date
Yeah, Im talking about sustain which is increased with set necks.
 
excellent 1st guitar--especially for the $.....after you choose some screamin pick-ups, take it to a Pro to have it "set-up"....the guitar itself is of good-enough quality that, in the hands of the right craftsman, it can be made to play as "easy" as a Gibson....a slight neck adjustment, a fret-job, get the harmonics set, will cost more than the hundred you have in it, but, the difference will be nite/day.
 
that is what we call "polishing a turd", you can polish it but its still a turd. As for making it play as "easy" as a gibson, that is the craziest thing I have ever heard of.
 
I like my turds nice and shiny, but is all that setup stuff really worth it? I mean, I can justify $40 for pickups and maybe another $10 for good tuners, but I'd have to be convinced of the value of $100 of service on it.
 
Dolemite-

It is your guitar. Only do what you want, not what people say you should do.

My #1 is actually a MIM Fender squier strat, back when they just had a little "squier" on the end of the headstock. I ripped the insides out, put '54 Custom Shop PU's in it, replaced the pots and did all the wiring by hand. Then I got a custom shop tortoise shell pickguard and found an older Fender trem i liked. While the body was missing everything I decided to scuff it up a bit with some steel wool and then doused the whole thing in Old English...to make it look old. And I sanded off the squier part cause I didnt like it. I had the frets replaced with jumbos and the rosewood fretboard oiled to a really fast feel. Amazingly, I still have the original tuners on it. It NEVER goes out of tune.

I play this guitar more than my American std, tele, Parkers, Gibsons. It plays better and sounds better than my lead guitar players Strat plus, and most other am strats I have played, includuding mine. Anyone who plays it is amazed by the playablilty and the tone. It has "the" tone.
My point is, do what you think is worth it to you, and not like you are going to sell it some day. And later, I'll tell you about my Epi LP with the PRS Dragon conversion. :) (really)

H2H
 
H2H,

Interesting story about your guitar. I don't buy into the whole "you get what you pay for" thing, especially for stuff like guitars. For better or for worse, my budget fits that philosophy. There's definitely a point of diminishing return. I realize I'm pretty far from that point, but I think the main thing is to practice. I sometimes get caught up in the gear side of things and forget that I don't appreciate or don't know how to use the gear I have. You're intriging me with the Epi/PRS hybrid, tho!
 
lets see...where to begin?....anyone who believes that the type of wood used and method of construction (i.e. bolt-on vs. glued into place neck) of an "electric" guitar affects the "resonance" and "tone" of what is ultimately OUTPUT or replicated by a loudspeaker is simply wrong.... physics101 and a basic understanding of "electro-magnetism" will set you free from whatever manufacturer's hype has you duped....we're talking about "electric" guitars here, not "acoustic" guitars...acoustic instruments produce sound as a function of "mechanical action" upon physical matter and space....electric instruments produce sound as a function of "electro-mechanical action" upon physical matter and space....what is audible from an acous. guitar is the result of how this mechanical action (the air disturbances caused by vibrating strings) is affected by the size, shape, types of wood and materials used in constructing the guitar, and the listening environment--all of these things will tend to affect the resonance and tone of acoustic guitar...in contrast, the electric guitar produces an electro-magnetic "signal", localized at the pick-up, which follows a path of least resistance--your guitar cord--largely isolated (insulated) from the wood, glue, pearl-inlay, binding, and other materials which are not really conductive at all--that is to say--they are not part of the "path" along which the signal travels to get to the speaker....if these materials are not part of the path along which the signal travels, it is therefore impossible for them to color the "tone" or in any way affect resonance, sustain, attack, decay, or whatever....simple, right?
As for putting a few bucks into a "cheap" guitar, I should somewhat qualify my earlier statement to the effect that Epi guitars are of good enough quality to match the playing ease of a Gibson if left for awhile in the hands of a good craftsman....let me be more specific....I have played (1) Epi Les Paul that completely blew me away with its similarity to a Gibson in "feel" and "ease of playing"...this particular guitar had been seriously customized by a friend who perhaps has more money than sense....it was his very first guitar from some 20 years ago, and I gotta say that who ever customized it did a fantastic job....of course, not every "cheap" guitar is a candidate for this kind of attention....but, even a VW Beetle can be fixed up for cruisin without trying to make anyone believe it's Vette.
 
Dolemite - regarding your original post.............

If you've already got the pickups, by all means put them in, but play the guitar some and see how it sounds and how it stays in tune before you put any money into it - you can make it sound a little better by putting your money into beer :D

If this is your "first guitar" and you want "someting to learn on" it will be much easier to play, and possibly sound better, if it is set up properly. Most used guitars, and in fact most new ones, could stand to have some adjustment. If you can find somebody you can trust, bring it to him and have him tell you exactly what he'll do to it. You may find that it needs very little work, but if not it could be the best $$ spent on the guitar.
 
toyL said:
lets see...where to begin?....anyone who believes that the type of wood used and method of construction (i.e. bolt-on vs. glued into place neck) of an "electric" guitar affects the "resonance" and "tone" of what is ultimately OUTPUT or replicated by a loudspeaker is simply wrong.... physics101 and a basic understanding of "electro-magnetism" will set you free from whatever manufacturer's hype has you duped
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OK. Seeing how I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science, I think I have taken enough physics classes in my life. And yes, thermodynamics was a bitch.:)

Physics aside, I own 12 guitars, I am friends with a couple great luthiers. Simple fact is that 2 Gibson HB's in a Strat will sound nothing like a LP, and if you could somehow put 3 Texas Specials in a LP, it would sound nothing like a Strat. There are several, several factors that contribute to this. The way the pickups are mounted is a factor, the amount and density of the wood is another factor in the sound of the guitar, the neck joint is another factor. If I put the same pickups in 4 guitars that were using 4 different methods of construction, i.e. woods, neck joint, finish, you would get a different sound from each one.

I'm not going to back this up with physics or math, I back it up with my ears:). I don't think you'll find one maker of guitars that subscribes to your theory. (OK, Maybe Ken Parker...but in a different way)

H2H
 
the electric guitar produces an electro-magnetic "signal", localized at the pick-up, which follows a path of least resistance--your guitar cord--largely isolated (insulated) from the wood, glue, pearl-inlay, binding, and other materials which are not really conductive at all--that is to say--they are not part of the "path" along which the signal travels to get to the speaker....if these materials are not part of the path along which the signal travels, it is therefore impossible for them to color the "tone" or in any way affect resonance, sustain, attack, decay, or whatever....simple, right?
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simple yes, but also wrong. WHERE DO YOU THINK THE ELECTROMAGNETIC SIGNALS COME FROM??? They come from the vibrating strings. WHAT DO YOU THINK AFFECTS THE WAY THESE STRINGS VIBRATE???? Not the electronics, thats for shure, it is affected by the construction of the guitar. ARE YOU SAYING THAT A GIBSON WITH FENDER ELECTRONICS IN IT WOULD SOUND JUST LIKE A FENDER?????
 
thats crazy H2H, we posted at the same time and used the same gibson/fender analogy
 
yeah thats pretty blaringly obvious I guess.

By the way, it's not like they haven't tried. Gibson tried to sound like a Fender with the Nighthawk and Fender tried to sound like a LP in the Tele Deluxe from the 70's and more recently the "Fat Strat". On all occasions, they were pretty poor sellers, because they just don't get the sound by changing the pickups.
 
thanks H2H, for pointing out the "theory" element of all this....yes Carter, the "source" of the signal is a vibrating string--which is what I said when I used the term "mechanical".....and no I'm not suggesting that one need only start swapping out pick-ups to change a Gibson into a Fender or vice-versa (although you could start there)....fact is, if I carefully tweak those 4 little knobs on my Gibson it'll sound just like a strat...more importantly, if I tweak a few knobs on my amps, and then adjust the reverb, delay, distortion, etc. on the processor and at my feet, the actual sound OUTPUT from the "speakers" cannot be distinguished from early recordings of strats....notice that none of the above requires different wood, special bindings, different hardware, "glue"--of all things (that's crazy folks)--just a note here--I have been in defense electronics for nearly 20years, and have personally used at least dozens of various bonding materials in close proximity to all manner of electronic design, and I can say without a doubt that the type of bonding/potting material used is important--but it is not, however, something that our ears would be able to discern as it relates to the application of simply bonding a wood neck to a wood body....the next thing you guys will be telling us is that such and such manufacturer uses the same gypsum recipe in their shellac as Antonio Stradivari used in his violins....and sorry H2H, what your ears "hear" at any given moment is not simply the result of the construction/materials used....the "trons" involved are by far the main factor influencing what our ears perceive when listening to "electronic" music....you guys don't even mention the construction of the speakers, whatever they are, and the fact is--you are listening more to the speakers, than you are listening to the glue/wood/hardware--you can "hear" speakers, you cannot hear "glue".....I stand behind my original statement to the effect that the resonance and tone perceived from an electric guitar are functions of the trons involved in placing the guitar's signal onto a conductive path that ultimately comes from a "speaker" not glue or wood....later.
 
toyL said:
fact is, if I carefully tweak those 4 little knobs on my Gibson it'll sound just like a strat...
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No. It may relatively approximate a strat when compared to the Gibson's original tone (I assume we're talking Les Pauls or the like), but it won't sound "just like a strat." The fact that you have to perform tonal adjustments proves the fact that you have to compensate for the inherent tonal differences of material and workmanship.

Physics 101.
The size, shape, and density of the wood affects its resonance. The resonance of the wood affects the sustain of the strings and reinforces certain harmonic qualitites over other harmonic qualities. The pickups transfer the string vibrations, including the sustain and harmonic qualities to the amp and speaker. Thus the size, shape, and density of the wood affect the sound you hear at the speaker.

more importantly, if I tweak a few knobs on my amps, and then adjust the reverb, delay, distortion, etc. on the processor and at my feet, the actual sound OUTPUT from the "speakers" cannot be distinguished from early recordings of strats....notice that none of the above requires different wood, special bindings, different hardware, "glue"--of all things (that's crazy folks)
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The fact that you have to perform elaborate tonal manipulations again illustrates how the Les Paul does not sound like a Strat and how you have to drastically compensate for this fact with extensive adjustments.

--just a note here--I have been in defense electronics for nearly 20years, and have personally used at least dozens of various bonding materials in close proximity to all manner of electronic design
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Dropping qualifications? Ok, Electrical Engineering degree and twenty years experience playing, building, and customizing guitars. I've had courses in nuclear and quantum physics, so I have a good grasp of what you label "Physics 101."

what your ears "hear" at any given moment is not simply the result of the construction/materials used......I stand behind my original statement to the effect that the resonance and tone perceived from an electric guitar are functions of the trons involved in placing the guitar's signal onto a conductive path that ultimately comes from a "speaker" not glue or wood....later.
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Your original hypothesis was "anyone who believes that the type of wood used and method of construction (i.e. bolt-on vs. glued into place neck) of an "electric" guitar affects the "resonance" and "tone" of what is ultimately OUTPUT or replicated by a loudspeaker is simply wrong"

Yes. You are now correct that there are many factors that play a role in an amplified guitar's tone. However you are incorrect that the physical attributes of a guitar do not play a role in the formula.


Me
 
toyL said:
lets see...where to begin?....anyone who believes that the type of wood used and method of construction (i.e. bolt-on vs. glued into place neck) of an "electric" guitar affects the "resonance" and "tone" of what is ultimately OUTPUT or replicated by a loudspeaker is simply wrong.... physics101 and a basic understanding of "electro-magnetism" will set you free from whatever manufacturer's hype has you duped....we're talking about "electric" guitars here, not "acoustic" guitars...acoustic instruments produce sound as a function of "mechanical action" upon physical matter and space....electric instruments produce sound as a function of "electro-mechanical action" upon physical matter and space....
Click to expand...

toyL, I think you are missing something.
Try this, tap on the body of an electric guitar, you have just caused the strings to vibrate by inducing vibration in the body. This proves that the vibrations of the body have some effect on the vibrations of the strings.
Next, pluck any open string close to the bridge and listen to it, now pluck the same string over the 12th fret, it sounds completely different, this is because the strings vibration is not a simple harmonic vibration, it's a complex compound vibration with reflected waves travelling up and down the length of the string.

If you add these two pieces of information together you will realise that the vibration of the guitars body will infact modify the way in which the strings are vibrating and so produce a different sound.
 
Give me any recording from any year of either a LesPaul or a Strat, and I'll tell you if it's a Les Paul or a Strat (or even a tele). If you can't hear the difference between these two guitars, then you need to learn how to listen better. (Not including heavily modified signals, if you run it through a digital effects processor, they will all lose their tonal qualities and sound similar)

toyL- I am not debating your knowledge of physics or electronics. You would have no reason to lie, and I completely think what you say about your electronics expertise is true. BUT if you can't distinguish the sounds of these guitar elements, you should practice your listening skills. Please feel free to contact any custom builder of electric guitars and question them with your dis-belief in tone woods. David McNaught, Gary Jacobs, Phil Driskill...these guys don't have reason to blow smoke up your butt, they are NOT large manufacturers of guitars. They DO, however, have the years of building expertise that I do not.

I stand behind my ears. Please refer to MP3 clinic if my ears are in doubt to you. I will post anything you would to hear to show guitar differences, or listen to anything you would like me to hear to solidify your points here.

Have a great day.
H2H

Oh, and the day anyone can "tweak" a Les Paul to sound like a Strat is the day I will eat the tweed covering of my '59 Bassman. :)
 
you can get strat&tele type tones out of a page les paul with a little knob tweeking
 
Yep and the eric clapton strat has a button that lets you recreate the sounds from his gibson days.
 
hi all....the enthusiasm on this site is tremendous and contagious....glad to comm. with so many knowledgeable people…vox, your example of vibrating the wood with a simple tap of the finger to induce string vibration shows how the wood “can” be used as a conduit to vibrate the strings…using the wood to affect vibrations only shows that a given guitar pick-up can detect a subjectively “small” disturbance caused by vibrating guitar strings …it does not, however, explain how a dried-up piece of hard-sealed wood, with or without a tablespoon of glue applied to a small quadrant, can affect the “tone” or “resonance” of what is already little more than an electro-magnetic anomaly captured onto a guitar cord….yes, guitar pick-ups are sensitive little creatures—I understand that much—a slight exhale across any fret on my sg and those old HBs somehow trick the loud-speakers into singing the most beautiful music—look Ma, no hands!

There is more that I’d like to discuss here, and I’ve made some notes, but I’ll have to get back later.…looking forward to more of your critical thinking…toyL.
 
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