good combo amp under $600
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darrin_h2000
Banned
Recordings made with a 10 watt supro
Led zeppelin 1, 2, 3.
The secret of big guitar sound for some of the english was pushing a small amp beyond its limits. The supro was Jimmy Pages choice for his sound.
Not very intimidating for stage use though.
PS. The Tech 21 kicks ass. try it it will change your opinion about your peavys,mesa's,marshalls etc...
modeling with circutry,not DSP is the future.
Led zeppelin 1, 2, 3.
The secret of big guitar sound for some of the english was pushing a small amp beyond its limits. The supro was Jimmy Pages choice for his sound.
Not very intimidating for stage use though.
PS. The Tech 21 kicks ass. try it it will change your opinion about your peavys,mesa's,marshalls etc...
modeling with circutry,not DSP is the future.
jimistone
long standing member
as far as recording goes, my style is blues. Live, im playing classic rock and and dance music. So, as far as blues guitar goes, tone is VERY important to me. It takes a pretty clean tone with alot of power and sustain. That ain't an easy tone to get...but....the bandit comes thru with the tone (im playing a '66 strat thru it).
Some of the classic rock we do in our live show is older zz top, stones, seger, jimi hendrix, trower, and the beatles (to give an idea of what kinds of different tones i have to have). Now, i can take my 100 watt marshall and blow out some old zz top and hendrix ...but it ain't worth a damn for beatles or some of the doors tunes we do. I have never liked the marshall tone for blues (i don't care if clapton did play one with the bluesbreakers)
the bandit covers all the bases pretty well....from the beatles to hendrix ...to zz top.
as far as skynyrd not using bandits goes....if you re-read my post I said that to start with.
as far as recording a bandit and actually hearing one on a recording goes....i have several blues tunes that im in the middle of tracking right now. I used my bandit on alot of the lead and rythem work. When I get the tunes finished I will put some mp3's up for y'all to check out....some with tube amps and some with the bandit. I have gotten killer tone on recordings with the bandit mic'd with a sure sm57 going into a joe meek vc6q.
Im not a pro when it comes to recording by any stretch of the imagination, but I have had alot of experiance with several different amps on many different styles of music in live situations. I don't consider myself a novice on guitar tone.
I too am not going to keep going round and round any more about this either. I have had alot of pleasure out of my bandit amp...almost enough to offset the pain and frustration brought on by actually trying to MAKE the valvestate do a job its not capable of (mainly to humor my ego..and not have to admit I bought a piece of crap). Its kind of hard for me to believe anyone that has actually used one would recomend it...but...different strokes i guess
peace
Some of the classic rock we do in our live show is older zz top, stones, seger, jimi hendrix, trower, and the beatles (to give an idea of what kinds of different tones i have to have). Now, i can take my 100 watt marshall and blow out some old zz top and hendrix ...but it ain't worth a damn for beatles or some of the doors tunes we do. I have never liked the marshall tone for blues (i don't care if clapton did play one with the bluesbreakers)
the bandit covers all the bases pretty well....from the beatles to hendrix ...to zz top.
as far as skynyrd not using bandits goes....if you re-read my post I said that to start with.
as far as recording a bandit and actually hearing one on a recording goes....i have several blues tunes that im in the middle of tracking right now. I used my bandit on alot of the lead and rythem work. When I get the tunes finished I will put some mp3's up for y'all to check out....some with tube amps and some with the bandit. I have gotten killer tone on recordings with the bandit mic'd with a sure sm57 going into a joe meek vc6q.
Im not a pro when it comes to recording by any stretch of the imagination, but I have had alot of experiance with several different amps on many different styles of music in live situations. I don't consider myself a novice on guitar tone.
I too am not going to keep going round and round any more about this either. I have had alot of pleasure out of my bandit amp...almost enough to offset the pain and frustration brought on by actually trying to MAKE the valvestate do a job its not capable of (mainly to humor my ego..and not have to admit I bought a piece of crap). Its kind of hard for me to believe anyone that has actually used one would recomend it...but...different strokes i guess
peace
Griffinator
New member
jimistone said:
No, you didn't. You conveniently omitted the part about what kind of Peavey they used, in an effort to lend credence to your statement about Bandits. All you said was "Lynyrd Skynyrd played Peaveys on One More From The Road"
Someone who didn't know anything about Skynyrd's road gear would say "wow - those Peavey Bandits he's talking about must be pretty good if Skynyrd used them" when in fact they didn't.
I know better, and I know that the Bandit is a pile of junk compared to a Deuce VT, which, as I said, is an all tube combo, not a solid state combo, like the Bandit. And Deuces do have a hell of a clean tone to go with some raunchy distortion. I love 'em.
jimistone
long standing member
i didn't conveniently omitt shit. heres what i said:
they weren't bandits but they were peavey....and the skynyrd could have afforded messas, marshalls, fenders, or whatever they wanted.
i just thought i would copy and paste that from my previous post.
i don't even think pevey had come out with bandits yet in 1976
just to clear all this up let me say this....
BANDITS SUCK, THEY ARE TOTAL CRAP. I WOULDN'T RECOMEND ONE TO MY WORST ENEMY. IM SELLING MY BANDIT TOMORROW. NO..IM NOT SELLING IT...IM GOING TO WALK...NO MAKE THAT RUN LIKE THE WIND TO THE MUSIC STORE AND BEG THEM TO LET ME PAY THEM SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS TO TRADE MY BANDIT FOR THAT GREAT MARSHALL VALVESTATE THAT I SCREWED UP AND GOT RID OF. YOU KNOW..THE ONE WITH THE GREAT CRACKLY SOUNDING KNOBS AND THE BROKEN PLASTIC JACK ON THE BACK. THE ONE WITH THE PUSSY TONE....WHAT WAS I THINKING WHEN I LET THAT JEWEL GET AWAY FROM ME!
im glad you have made me see the err in my ways. i thought the dude wanted an amp for under 600 bucks that sounded good...i never dreamed that $1500 tube amps sounded better than $400 solid state amps....im glad you clued me in on that.
they weren't bandits but they were peavey....and the skynyrd could have afforded messas, marshalls, fenders, or whatever they wanted.
i just thought i would copy and paste that from my previous post.
i don't even think pevey had come out with bandits yet in 1976
just to clear all this up let me say this....
BANDITS SUCK, THEY ARE TOTAL CRAP. I WOULDN'T RECOMEND ONE TO MY WORST ENEMY. IM SELLING MY BANDIT TOMORROW. NO..IM NOT SELLING IT...IM GOING TO WALK...NO MAKE THAT RUN LIKE THE WIND TO THE MUSIC STORE AND BEG THEM TO LET ME PAY THEM SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS TO TRADE MY BANDIT FOR THAT GREAT MARSHALL VALVESTATE THAT I SCREWED UP AND GOT RID OF. YOU KNOW..THE ONE WITH THE GREAT CRACKLY SOUNDING KNOBS AND THE BROKEN PLASTIC JACK ON THE BACK. THE ONE WITH THE PUSSY TONE....WHAT WAS I THINKING WHEN I LET THAT JEWEL GET AWAY FROM ME!
im glad you have made me see the err in my ways. i thought the dude wanted an amp for under 600 bucks that sounded good...i never dreamed that $1500 tube amps sounded better than $400 solid state amps....im glad you clued me in on that.
Lopp
New member
Re: Recordings made with a 10 watt supro
Yes, the Tech 21 kicks ass.
No, it won't change my opinion about my Mesas.
I have the SansAmp GT2 and the PSA-1. They sound excellent. More versatile and better tone than many amps I have owned.
I also have a Mesa/Boogie Quad and a TriAxis. They are better than the SansAmps. Better clean, better crunch, better scream. In fact, IMHO, not many other amps even come close to my Boogies.
I don't know about that. However, the SansAmps don't "model." "Modeling" inherently requires DSP. You cannot "model" without DSP. Modeling involves the use of algorithms to try to mathematically create a response like a device being modeled. This requires DSP.
The SansAmps "emulate" other amps. This "emulation" is done with transistors, etc.
Just thought I'd clarify the terminology.
Matt
darrin_h2000 said:
Yes, the Tech 21 kicks ass.
No, it won't change my opinion about my Mesas.
I have the SansAmp GT2 and the PSA-1. They sound excellent. More versatile and better tone than many amps I have owned.
I also have a Mesa/Boogie Quad and a TriAxis. They are better than the SansAmps. Better clean, better crunch, better scream. In fact, IMHO, not many other amps even come close to my Boogies.
I don't know about that. However, the SansAmps don't "model." "Modeling" inherently requires DSP. You cannot "model" without DSP. Modeling involves the use of algorithms to try to mathematically create a response like a device being modeled. This requires DSP.
The SansAmps "emulate" other amps. This "emulation" is done with transistors, etc.
Just thought I'd clarify the terminology.
Matt
darrin_h2000
Banned
Im just saying "Dont get Peaved" The mesa is good for some things, But the tech 21 is better for everything you will need in your studio.
Speeddemon
New member
AMEN Again Jimistone
Jeez man, looks like Griffinator and Jrlemonz are a bunch of gear snobs. No, I'm not another Dimebag clone, my kind of tone sits a bit between Iron Maiden's "Piece of Mind"guitarsound and Iced Earth. And don't call me stupid for using/having used a MT-2. Guess I'm a bigger pro than you guys, because I CAN get great tone out of a fucking Metalzone. But to burst your bubble even more, I now use an original Vox-Wah and a Boss GT-3.
I wander how long the next flame will take, saying something like "COSM amp modeling is for pussies".
A Valvestate, any, will never beat a Peavey Bandit in terms of built quality (Peavey uses metal connectors and better wood), sound versatality and price/performance.!
Stop being so blind, and start comparing the Bandit to other $400 amps, not to some $2000 Mesa shit. Yeah, a Mark IV is nice too.
cheerz
jimistone said:
Jeez man, looks like Griffinator and Jrlemonz are a bunch of gear snobs. No, I'm not another Dimebag clone, my kind of tone sits a bit between Iron Maiden's "Piece of Mind"guitarsound and Iced Earth. And don't call me stupid for using/having used a MT-2. Guess I'm a bigger pro than you guys, because I CAN get great tone out of a fucking Metalzone. But to burst your bubble even more, I now use an original Vox-Wah and a Boss GT-3.
I wander how long the next flame will take, saying something like "COSM amp modeling is for pussies".
A Valvestate, any, will never beat a Peavey Bandit in terms of built quality (Peavey uses metal connectors and better wood), sound versatality and price/performance.!
Stop being so blind, and start comparing the Bandit to other $400 amps, not to some $2000 Mesa shit. Yeah, a Mark IV is nice too.
cheerz
I guess I'm a tone snob, not a gear snob. Unfortunately they go hand in hand. Good tone comes at a cost. I did compare it to a amp under $600, the valvestate, and although I must say I do agree the construction doesn't quite cut it on some, the sound is SO much better then a Bandit. The Mesa references were not started by myself, I just was appalled at people thinking a Bandit could measure up. Sorry, but anyone looking for that "Iced Eartyh" guitar tone, has no idea in the first place.
Jake - The Gear Snob
Jake - The Gear Snob
Griffinator
New member
Re: AMEN Again Jimistone
Jeez man, looks like Griffinator and Jrlemonz are a bunch of gear snobs.
No, I'm not. I've just heard too damned many Bandits in my life to believe that suddenly Peavey has made an about face and started delivering a version of the Bandit that doesn't sound like SHIT.
A Valvestate, any, will never beat a Peavey Bandit in terms of built quality (Peavey uses metal connectors and better wood), sound versatality and price/performance.!
Better Wood?! We're not talking about guitars here, bro. Please. Elaborate on this "Better Wood".
While you're at it, explain to me how the Black Widows (stock in every Bandit ever made) sound better than a Celestion?
And further, explain to me how exactly ANYONE could build an amplifier without using METAL CONNECTORS? What - do you think perhaps they used nothing but PLASTIC in a Marshall Valvestate?
I told you before and I'll tell you again. I think new Marshalls suck ass. But the man wanted the Godsmack tone - and the Godsmack tone is a detuned Les Paul on a Mesa Boogie. There's not a Peavey made that will match that tone. A Valvestate will get a lot closer.
Jeez man, looks like Griffinator and Jrlemonz are a bunch of gear snobs.
No, I'm not. I've just heard too damned many Bandits in my life to believe that suddenly Peavey has made an about face and started delivering a version of the Bandit that doesn't sound like SHIT.
A Valvestate, any, will never beat a Peavey Bandit in terms of built quality (Peavey uses metal connectors and better wood), sound versatality and price/performance.!
Better Wood?! We're not talking about guitars here, bro. Please. Elaborate on this "Better Wood".
While you're at it, explain to me how the Black Widows (stock in every Bandit ever made) sound better than a Celestion?
And further, explain to me how exactly ANYONE could build an amplifier without using METAL CONNECTORS? What - do you think perhaps they used nothing but PLASTIC in a Marshall Valvestate?
I told you before and I'll tell you again. I think new Marshalls suck ass. But the man wanted the Godsmack tone - and the Godsmack tone is a detuned Les Paul on a Mesa Boogie. There's not a Peavey made that will match that tone. A Valvestate will get a lot closer.
jimistone
long standing member
how does a black widow sound better than a celestion? I dunno, I have a 4/12 marshall slant cab that has celestion's and it sounds good. does it sound better than a 4/12 cab with black widows? I dunno, I don't have an identical cab loaded with black widows to compare. peavey butcher amps sounded good but a couldn't honestly tell you whether they were loaded with black widows. what about the peavey tube amps that skynyrd used...were they black widow equiped? i dunno
I can tell you one way black widows are better than celestions. If you blow a black widow you just take out the 3 allen screws on the back of the magnet...pull the magnet off and pop in a new cone and your ready to rock (most peavey dealers stock them and they are inexpensive enough to have a couple on hand for gigs). If you damage any other part of a black widow speaker peavey will fix it for free ..even if its not under warranty i've seen them do that several times ( peavey is located pretty close to where i live)
if you blow a celestion you might as well go buy a new one...so...i would say in that respect the black widow is better.
blowing a black widow or a celestion is pretty rare though
the new bandit amps are not equiped with black widows by the way.
When it comes to (peavey) guitar amp speakers I like their scorpian speakers better than their black widows. the black widow is their top of the line speaker and the scorpian is lower on the totem pole, but, a 12" scorpian sounds better than a 12" black widow for guitar. IMO For bass guitar and P. A. applictions the black widows are better.
the drummer that i record with has a bandit that is BW equipped (2 or 3 years older than mine) It dosen't sound near as good as mine.
the transtube line sounds alot better than the older ones
i have a suggestion, before you go any further in your assalt of the peavey bandit....why don't you go play through one of the new ones. Since your going by your memory of older bandits that are a completly different animal than the new ones, If you still think it sounds like shit, then at least you will have some credibility.
peace
I can tell you one way black widows are better than celestions. If you blow a black widow you just take out the 3 allen screws on the back of the magnet...pull the magnet off and pop in a new cone and your ready to rock (most peavey dealers stock them and they are inexpensive enough to have a couple on hand for gigs). If you damage any other part of a black widow speaker peavey will fix it for free ..even if its not under warranty i've seen them do that several times ( peavey is located pretty close to where i live)
if you blow a celestion you might as well go buy a new one...so...i would say in that respect the black widow is better.
blowing a black widow or a celestion is pretty rare though
the new bandit amps are not equiped with black widows by the way.
When it comes to (peavey) guitar amp speakers I like their scorpian speakers better than their black widows. the black widow is their top of the line speaker and the scorpian is lower on the totem pole, but, a 12" scorpian sounds better than a 12" black widow for guitar. IMO For bass guitar and P. A. applictions the black widows are better.
the drummer that i record with has a bandit that is BW equipped (2 or 3 years older than mine) It dosen't sound near as good as mine.
the transtube line sounds alot better than the older ones
i have a suggestion, before you go any further in your assalt of the peavey bandit....why don't you go play through one of the new ones. Since your going by your memory of older bandits that are a completly different animal than the new ones, If you still think it sounds like shit, then at least you will have some credibility.
peace
Griffinator
New member
jimistone said:
I've stated earlier in the thread that if they sound as good as you say they do, I'm interested in checking them out. Only thing I was arguing were the ambiguous statements you made like "better wood" and "metal connectors"
Speeddemon
New member
reply to Grif/Jrlemonz
First of all, the new Bandits are loaded with Sheffield speakers, not Black Widows.
2) With wood, I ment the casing, cab, whatever you like to call it
3) The metal connectors, well I dunno the right word for it, but where you plug your guitarcable in, the Peavey has this metal, solid stuff, the Valvestate has plastic ones. I'm sure, inside they're both metal for transducing the electricity, but the outer 'casing' for the connector is plastic with the Marshall.
Maybe I don't have an idea about great tone (yet I love SRV, Clapton, Eric Johnson, Dale, Setzer, DiMeola, Malmsteen, Hendrix, Beck (Jeff, not the loser lo-fi dude ),Santana, Slash, Van Halen, Knopfler, Gilmour...), but bashing Iced Earth, because you don't like the music is stupid, and no, Valvestates just won't cut it. Period.
A $400 Line6 Spider sounds way better than any Valvestate!
Once more, I played on a lot of better amps than the Bandit 112, but I haven't found more versatile cheaper ones.
But, I don't know about that Tech21 thingy, so (I) try it out next to a Bandit. But forget the low-end Marshall crap.
Hell, a Fender Champion 110 sounds better (even distortion) than a Valvestate.
First of all, the new Bandits are loaded with Sheffield speakers, not Black Widows.
2) With wood, I ment the casing, cab, whatever you like to call it
3) The metal connectors, well I dunno the right word for it, but where you plug your guitarcable in, the Peavey has this metal, solid stuff, the Valvestate has plastic ones. I'm sure, inside they're both metal for transducing the electricity, but the outer 'casing' for the connector is plastic with the Marshall.
Maybe I don't have an idea about great tone (yet I love SRV, Clapton, Eric Johnson, Dale, Setzer, DiMeola, Malmsteen, Hendrix, Beck (Jeff, not the loser lo-fi dude
),Santana, Slash, Van Halen, Knopfler, Gilmour...), but bashing Iced Earth, because you don't like the music is stupid, and no, Valvestates just won't cut it. Period. A $400 Line6 Spider sounds way better than any Valvestate!
Once more, I played on a lot of better amps than the Bandit 112, but I haven't found more versatile cheaper ones.
But, I don't know about that Tech21 thingy, so (I) try it out next to a Bandit. But forget the low-end Marshall crap.
Hell, a Fender Champion 110 sounds better (even distortion) than a Valvestate.
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Speeddemon
New member
A thought
How 'bout this setup?
Guitar to MT-2, MT-2 to splitter box, 1 splitterbox out to DI, DI to mixer/recorder, 1 splitterbox out to Bandit 112. In front of Bandit, put SM57 3" from conus a little off axis, put MD421 3' away from conus and put an fine condenser (U87, C12, whatever) 6' away from conus, off axis.
Hence you'll have 4 signals entering the mixer (DI, sm57, md421, condenser), make a good balance of this. You'll need a nice room for this, but if the tone/sound won't be killer now, I'm lost what will.
cheerz and peace
Griffinator said:
Figure also he's one of the minions of Dinbag Darrell clones - and I guarantee he's never tried to record the tone he gets from a Peavey Bandit with a MetalZone pedal - if he did, and took a good hard listen to it (and even compared it to a Dinbag record) he would suddenly realise how bad the tone really was.
But bear also in mind that we went through those low-budget, young ear stages - My first rig was a Dean Markley 40W combo amp with a RockTron compressor and a Rat distortion pedal - I thought it was the shit.
How 'bout this setup?
Guitar to MT-2, MT-2 to splitter box, 1 splitterbox out to DI, DI to mixer/recorder, 1 splitterbox out to Bandit 112. In front of Bandit, put SM57 3" from conus a little off axis, put MD421 3' away from conus and put an fine condenser (U87, C12, whatever) 6' away from conus, off axis.
Hence you'll have 4 signals entering the mixer (DI, sm57, md421, condenser), make a good balance of this. You'll need a nice room for this, but if the tone/sound won't be killer now, I'm lost what will.
cheerz and peace
HMMM.... a metalzone direct mixed with 3 microphones all mic'ing the same shitty amp..... I think almost anything would be better then that. Just cause you have 4 signals doesn't make it good. You could have 43, and it would still sound like shit. (oh yeah in my own opinion a u87 isn't even close to under $600 not to mention all the other stuff you mentioned.)
Jake
Jake
Speeddemon
New member
Get your head outta ya ass man
Oh, I'm sorry, wasn't this the $600 MIC thread then?
fool.
Maybe if ya quit bitchin' about the Bandit, you could learn to actually get great tone out of it. I know I have. So now I have some spare time to bitch, eh?
jrlemonz said:
Oh, I'm sorry, wasn't this the $600 MIC thread then?
fool.
Maybe if ya quit bitchin' about the Bandit, you could learn to actually get great tone out of it. I know I have. So now I have some spare time to bitch, eh?