goin' upstream

B

beaverbiscuit

New member
This thread comes from the discussion in the "Couple O' Times" thread in this forum. Thanks, nave. :D

Have any of y'all ever tried stream of consciousness writing — just putting words on paper without any attempt to "work" them until afterward? I don't know if it's something I'd do for every song, but it has from time to time yielded some strangely pleasing connections and phrases. I'm curious to hear if anyone else has tried it and what the outcomes were.

Any thoughts? About the topic, that is. :p
 
I wrote a couple of streaming things before. one turned out quite well. the other I did with luminous lime pen, so I can't read the whole thing all at once (it is a folio that is filled to the edges).
i wrote both within 20 minutes of each other. i was in a foul mood.

I like the idea of improvising lyrics. If you get yourself in the right moment (place, time, environment, people, drugs?) some really cool things can happen. I recorded a demo with my band, and it was completely unrehearsed. I mean, I booked the studio time, and made the plans, but we didn't practice at all together, not once. I only realised this once we got there. One of the songs (it is a 4 track demo that we are too embarassed to play to anyone) was so unrehearsed, that the drummer didn't even know it existed. it turned out to be the best track on the demo. while recording the drums, I told the drummer that I wanted "sex and Isaac Hayes" and he played it perfectly. we got it in one take. i changed the whole song structure because I didnt actually know what the structure was (I am a genuine beginner)! similar things happened on the other tracks (some takes were so bad, that in a marathon post-production session at my house using cakewalk, the stuff sounded better when we reversed it; ergo, track one is mostly backwards!) We just really enjoyed ourselves and let it flow... i would have loved to have booked out a studio for a month and just done that. We wrote and recorded a hilarious blues track called "Frank Sinatra" (you can only imagine...) in one take at a jam session. the rhyming is perfect, and the meter needs a little nip and tuck here and there. but what a great song!

jeez. this is long.
streaming/improvised/instant lyrics... I'm all for it!
 
I did that for years in coffehouses. Just made it up as I went along. Most of it was pure crap, but fortunately, the crowd was usually very stoned, so it went over well. The satisfaction I got from it was that nobody knew it was improvised. Blues guys do that all the time.

Bob
 
nave, sorry for the long delay, but I finally got around to reading your response in the other thread. I wondered if there wasn't a communication breakdown regarding that "paint thinner" thing :D.

Anyway, to answer your question about what I think of when I say "stream of consciousness," I was originally thinking of an approach which is, for lack of a better word, improvisational. If the depiction of Jim Morrison's first delivery of "The End" in Oliver Stone's movie is accurate, that would be a first-rate example of the stream I was talking about.

But the more I think about it, stream of consciousness isn't necessarily about the actual creation of the lyric. David Crosby has written some lyrics that seem to just flow from one thought to the next in an almost unconnected fashion, but the whole is larger than the parts (thoughts). Often these kind of lyrics don't have much rhyme, and I've heard them described as "asymmetrical" in form (especially with Crosby).

It can be a trap, though, to not have any form to work with. Too much freedom leading to apathy — "I have too many damn choices!"

Can anybody give some more examples of this Crosbyesque type of writing? I'm at a loss for other names, but I know there are several.

Oh, got one — Joni Mitchell. What's wrong with me? :rolleyes:
 
Buffalo Bob said:
Don't forget Tim Buckley!
Click to expand...

I'm ashamed to admit this, but I know nothing about Tim Buckley. I found a website dedicated to him that mentioned that he, Steve Noonan, and Jackson Browne were known as "The Orange County Three," but I know nothing about either Noonan or Buckley. I'm so embarrassed :o.

So, Buffalo Bob, where would I begin if I wanted to check out Buckley's music (that is, which album)? I feel like some wet-behind-the-ears youngster instead of a 35 year old raised on 60s and 70s tunes :rolleyes:.

Thanks.
 
Beav-
Check out Goodbye & Hello (1967- Elektra)
Fav songs: Morning Glory
Phantasmagoria
Once I was
His recordings didn't really do him justice. Live, he was a force, with a vocal range and control that was incredible.
Steve Noonan is still gigging in the LA area.

Bob
 
So is *Goodbye and Hello* live? Probably not, since it was probably early in his career, eh?

It's kind of frustrating to learn about great players you've never heard of :rolleyes:, but on the other hand I love discovering "new" stuff that was released 20 years ago.

Thanks for the tip on the album and songs. I'll dig around and see if I can find it somewhere.
 
Buffalo —

So is *Goodbye and Hello* live? Probably not, since it was probably early in his career, eh?

It's kind of frustrating to learn about great players you've never heard of :rolleyes:, but on the other hand I love discovering "new" stuff that was released 20 years ago.

Thanks for the tip on the album and songs, oh bisony one :D. I'll dig around and see if I can find it somewhere.
 
"Goodbye & Hello" is not live. He did a couple of live albums, but they were not well-received. Buckley was kind-of the male Joni. Not as accessable or commercial as Jackson Browne, who was also from Orange County and coming up at the same time. Unfortunately, once he began riding the White Horse, it was all downhill. The tragic aspect of his life comes out in his music.
p.s. I auditioned for Elektra in 1972 and was turned down- they said I sounded too much like F"+<@$#^ Jackson Browne!!!!


Bob:D :D :D
 
BB, I'd say that even though you got turned away by Elektra, what a compliment to be compared favorably to Jackson Browne! Not to say that he's a favorite of mine, but I *do* respect him as a songwriter. With guys like you who have a ton of experience under their belts, I feel a bit foolish offering suggestions in this forum. I can just picture the vets as they read these posts:

(camera zooms in on Buffalo Bob at his computer; he reads the post and bursts into a full belly laugh at inanity of it; still laughing, he picks up his guitar, writes a song about the whole experience, posts it, and thus schools the brash youngster and his ilk, all within a 15 minute span; youngster-poster admits his folly and begs forgiveness; Buffalo Bob notches his guitar strap yet again)

So when this cub oversteps himself, my apologies in advance. Hubris is a hard thing to outgrow, sometimes :).
 
"I can just picture the vets as they read these posts.."

Hey Beav-
Everyone's opinion has merit! Longevity doesn't necessarily equate to talent- we're all pilgrims on this road. I've had a lot of fun, and met some great people in the music biz, and am still pluggin along after the brass ring. I've learned a lot on this forum from guys like Ed (Sonusman), and the other pros, regarding recording technique. I usually only offer my opinion when it involves writing or performing, because that's where I have some experience.
p.s. YOU may be the only person on this board who knows what "hubris" means!
:D

Bob
 
From what I've read, Lou Reed is one of the most streamier guys around. I do like Lou, but I can't say I'm moved by his lyrics -- but I'm not a lyric person (I'm one who thinks music is the most important part of songwriting, though shitty lyrics certainly aren't condoned by me).

Supposedly, even in the early days, when playing live, Lou would sing different lyrics to Sweet Jane every night. Just make them up. Coney Island Baby is supposedly (supposedly) made up as he went in the studio (the whole lp).

Bodhisan
 
BB, thanks for the friendly advice and encouragement. Good to know that vets like you don't mind the occasional suggestion from kits like me. (I'd say "pups" but beaver babies are "kits" and — well, you get the picture :)) Thanks again.

Bodhisan, interesting about Lou Reed. Not one of my favorite writers or performers, but that improvisational ability is remarkable. Gotta respect the ability if not the performer :p. Thanks for the reply, dude!
 
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