Giving Lessons To Beginner

[Natural Gass]

I'm giving lessons to kid that's a beginner. He wants to play punk stuff like Green Day & Nirvana.

I've been having him do 3 and 4 finger exercises on the fretboard and a simple pentatonic scale pattern to help him get his finger strength and coordination up. I also taught him the "E form" barre chord and the "A form" barre chord.

We've had four weekly lessons now and things are moving VERY slowly. He's struggling getting through the exercises and scale pattern playing each successive note at about 76 bpm, hasn't got the grasp of keeping time, and struggles with moving the bare chord up and down the fretboard and switching between the "E form" and "A form" barre chords. Am I expecting to much for him to be able to move through the exercises and scale patern cleanly with alternate picking at about 80 bpm on the drum machine after a month? And moving the barre chord around?

I'm trying to remember what it was like trying to learn to play - about 29 years ago. I wasn't a "natural", but I had a burning drive to learn to play. I remember watching a kid play barre chords at school and coming home and figuring out barre chords on my own in an afternoon and playing Smoke On The Water and China Grove rhythms that same afternoon. I could look at a scale pattern and pretty much have it memorized and play it in a day or two.

I'm just getting frustrated and I'm thinking of cutting him loose. Plus I'm starting to not feel good about charging him or his parents for lesson time and him not getting any where.

Any advice on helping him? I'd really thought it wouldn't be to hard to get him to the point where he could play barre chords along with his CD's.

 

[jpw23]

When I have a student that is moving slow......it is usually because he or she is getting bored........try changing things up a bit and show him a simple lick or two, or a simple tap.....sometimes this helps. Sometimes they have no talent.....whole different thing to deal with. Try not to get frustrated because your student will pick up on that.

 

[mshilarious]

Sounds like normal progress to me. Most methods do not start with barre chords because of the hand strength required. Instead, it's more typical to start in the keys of G and Em and learn the open string chords, with Bm as the last chord introduced.

 

[dirtythermos]

Yeah, I would start him with open chords. Teach him the Nirvana song "About a Girl" which is mostly just em and G. Once he is good at that simple change, you can get him to use that song to work on timing and rhythm.

Also, instead of scales, teach him cool riffs that will build his finger strength and dexterity. Teach him the solo to "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Teach him riff/bassline to "Come As You Are."

He'll dig that stuff.

 

[tourettes5139]

Teach him music theory, too.

 

[espskully]

When I was teaching full time I was up to 65 students a week. The fact of the matter is - some people just have no natural ability what so ever. I had students who wanted SO badly to play, and worked really hard at it - but could never even get around changing simple open chords. It's like anything - you could have Wayne Gretzky spend 5 years teaching someone to play hockey - and they never even learn how to skate. Others pick it up instantly.

Drive and practice have a lot to do with it - but even with those some will never get past first base.

As far as continuing to take his money - if he's happy, and you're not too frusterated - keep on keepin' on. I however - grow pretty tired pretty fast when I see a student with 0 potential.

The student I have now - a beginner - is working very hard and wants to learn. Too early to say just yet if he has any natural ability - but he has the drive and work ethic. We'll see.

 

[invisiblenemies]

Teach him the Nirvana song "About a Girl" which is mostly just em and G. Once he is good at that simple change, you can get him to use that song to work on timing and rhythm.

Good call.

When I took lessons for a few months when I first started playing (about 13 years ago) my guitar teacher took one look at my flannel shirt & beat up chuck taylors & taught me "about a girl". "Today" & "Disarm" by the Smashing Pumpkins were easy ones too.

Within a few weeks, we moved on to power chords, a la "Welcome to Paradise" by Green Day. I didn't have the finger strength yet to execute a proper barre chord; the two finger root & fifth helped me develop my rhythm. Besides, actual barre chords didn't match the recordings I was playing to.

I quit lessons after 6 months or so because it was interfering with my baseball season...although, I locked myself in my room for the duration of my jr high/high school career and pored over internet tabs every day after school. The Doors were a huge influence - I think I learned every song they put to record at one point or another. Jamming with friends helped too.

If your student wants to learn punkish songs, teach him. That'll keep his focus towards playing. Start with some Nirvana (anything off of Nevermind will work)...then progress to some Green Day (specifically Dookie or Insomniac). Their early records (though my favorites) might be too much for him at this point...Dookie is more straight-ahead rock. Make sure you teach him some songs or at least expose him to actual punk - Minor Threat, Black Flag, Ramones, etc...

Most importantly, give him a history lesson. Make him understand that punk isn't what's on the radio now. Show him that there are varying degrees of punk music. For instance, in the early 80's, punk that was happening on the east coast (bad brains, t.s.o.l) greatly differed than punk on the west coast (minutemen) but it was still all considered punk.

If he's into Green Day, let him hear music by the bands that influenced the pop-punk genre...specifically The Descendents & The Dead Milkmen. The more he listens to varying degrees of various genres, the more he'll want to learn. The more he's exposed to, the more he'll be inclined to lock himself in his bedroom for hours on end to practice.

Just my lengthy 2 cents.

 

[Grey Angel]

Man, just go "put your fingers here, here, and here. That's a power chord. Now go play..."

 

[Codmate]

Play with your hands the wrong way around (i.e. left-handed if you're normally right-handed) to get a feel for how tough it is.

Believe it or not, it's still much easier for you to do this than it is for a total beginner to pick up the guitar!

It's *really* hard at first, and so easy to forget.
It's one reason I've never really taught - I just get frustrated, but I know it's unjustified.

 

[Dani Pace]

What did you mean when you said "kid?" Most of my students are teens and at my age I consider them kids. Children younger than say 10 or so rarely have the strength to play bar chords so have patience with your student. Unfortunately some people (reguardless of age) just can not grasp the concepts of guitar and some have major problems developing coordination and dexterity, again I say "have patience." I usualy start by teaching (All I can do is show them, they have to learn it) the most basic open chords, C, G7, F, Am, Em and D. It often takes over a month for a kid to develop the dexterity to get through even the simple basic stuff. Explain how certain chords go together and show them simple songs so they can start to apply what you have shown them. Stress the importance of practice, finger strength and dexterity and picking are all developed skills and only come with practice, and lots of it, make sure this is understood by both the student and his (her) parents. Beginners often get frustrated because they just can't get their fingers to "do it," again, have patience. Remember you are teaching more than just guitar, you are also teaching discipline and patience, demonstration is the best teaching tool that you have.

 

[onlyfingers]

Little pieces instead of the big picture

The key may be in the last line of your post, where you mention "Play barre chords along with his CDs." If you are picking exercises, pick them from the very music that your student likes. It doesn't have to by barre chords. It can be as simple as learing where the chord changes are in the song, and playing the single root note along with the chord change. (String/Fret postions for notes and the role of the root in anchoring the measure or passage are the lessons.) You and your student can build up from there. Add related (lead or melody) singe notes. Add chords.

I was already a supposed veteran player, and was having a lot of problems getting some tricky timing down. I was playing guitar in a practice session accompanying my wife, who had already mastered the song on piano. She sensed my frustration, and emphasized the portions of the song where my timing was on, while I was getting frustrated looking at the parts I couldn't make work. ("See, you've got three measures down.") That is the approach that works for me, now. I always learn with a practice tape, so the music marches forward. Every pass through, I try to get more and more of the song. If I have a B sus chord in there that I am still trying to learn, I play the root note at least, and gradually get to where the other fingers learn it, too. I think of it like polishing something. It starts off kind of ratty looking, but going over and over it makes it good, and also lets you see the parts that still need work. (In music, there are always parts that need work!)

(I believe in practice tapes. When you show your student how something works, put it on tape to the student has a version to practice from. If your student's CDs are too fast to play along with, there is software that will slow them down but still keep them in key. Or you could lay down a slower-paced practice track for the student.)

Your command of music does not have to be another's command. You know how scales relate to what you play, but scales themselves are rarely used wholesale in a song. Pieces of scales, played in fragments with time modulated, and an occasional non-scale note, are what melodies are made of, I think. Unless the scale is related quickly to the very music the student is working on, the concept of scales may be a bit academic for a lot of beginners. That rationale may be applied to the whole of music theory. Should you even raise the issue if a partucular aspect of theory can't be related and used right away in the music your student wants to make? Want to start on theory? Find a song with key change, and see how the key change is used to crank the song up and move it toward a finale. The suggestion, therefore, is to find real-world examples to demonstrate, rather than present a logical or academic approach.

 

[TheRockDoc]

Often, teachers expect us to learn at the pace THEY expect us to learn, and not how we learn. There is an expectation of linear progress. It took me about 5-6 months to strum. One day, it just broke and I was playing pinball wizard. for 179 days I couldn't do it- all of a sudden, BANG!

3 basic patterns of learning- auditory (do you hear what I'm saying?), visual (do you see what I'm showing you?) and kinesthetic (here, when you play this chord, do you feel the tension?) will, IMO, help deal with future students- and maybe this one. Some kids want to learn to play songs- not an instrument. They put you at an disadvantage, unfairly as a teacher. Instant gratification- " *tisk* Can you just show me how to play___ " Putting the cart before the horse, as they say.

Then again, some kids will never figure how to choke their own chicken, even with expert instruction

 

[legionserial]

Good call.

When I took lessons for a few months when I first started playing (about 13 years ago) my guitar teacher took one look at my flannel shirt & beat up chuck taylors & taught me "about a girl". "Today" & "Disarm" by the Smashing Pumpkins were easy ones too.

Within a few weeks, we moved on to power chords, a la "Welcome to Paradise" by Green Day. I didn't have the finger strength yet to execute a proper barre chord; the two finger root & fifth helped me develop my rhythm. Besides, actual barre chords didn't match the recordings I was playing to.

I quit lessons after 6 months or so because it was interfering with my baseball season...although, I locked myself in my room for the duration of my jr high/high school career and pored over internet tabs every day after school. The Doors were a huge influence - I think I learned every song they put to record at one point or another. Jamming with friends helped too.

If your student wants to learn punkish songs, teach him. That'll keep his focus towards playing. Start with some Nirvana (anything off of Nevermind will work)...then progress to some Green Day (specifically Dookie or Insomniac). Their early records (though my favorites) might be too much for him at this point...Dookie is more straight-ahead rock. Make sure you teach him some songs or at least expose him to actual punk - Minor Threat, Black Flag, Ramones, etc...

Most importantly, give him a history lesson. Make him understand that punk isn't what's on the radio now. Show him that there are varying degrees of punk music. For instance, in the early 80's, punk that was happening on the east coast (bad brains, t.s.o.l) greatly differed than punk on the west coast (minutemen) but it was still all considered punk.

If he's into Green Day, let him hear music by the bands that influenced the pop-punk genre...specifically The Descendents & The Dead Milkmen. The more he listens to varying degrees of various genres, the more he'll want to learn. The more he's exposed to, the more he'll be inclined to lock himself in his bedroom for hours on end to practice.

Just my lengthy 2 cents.

This almost totally mirrors how I learned to play. Minus the teacher but I remember many many hours of pouring over internet tabs. And I think even the first tune I learned to play was in fact 'About a Girl'. Bands like Nirvana and Green Day really helped with thier simplistic but great sounding guitar work. I would almost go as far as to call it beginner reference material. Thats why I'm so angry about this tab banning business. Learning to play other peoples tunes helped me immensly, and even when the chips were down and I had my doubts about my potential ability, the thrill of learning to play a tune I loved kept me interested.

I took piano lessons when I was much younger, all I remember is excercises and basic scales. It certainly didn't keep me interested. Perhaps if my piano teachers had ever been willing to show of their own skills and give me the chance to say "so how do I get to play like that" I may have stayed interested. Now I wish I had. But I was very young.

So maybe run off a few licks and runs to the kid. Don't get to complicated or it may have the reverse effect and have him thinking "i'll never be able to play like that, I give up", but if you do something fancy, and then tell in the most convincing way possible that he "will be able to play like this is if you keep at it. 100% guaranteed. Only the more dedication and time and effort you put into it, the quicker you will get there".

Then try teach him to play Smells Like Teen Spirit, or at least show him the power chords. Then he will be like "cooooool!". I still remember how good that felt years ago when I finally heard that tune coming out of my fingers. Its very gratifying.

 

[Treeline]

I remember trying to teach guitar to someone when I was in high school. The process of trying to explain to someone else why this stuff works taught me that I had a whole bunch of learning to do before I could try and teach; it was quite an eye-opener. I've since learned my limits a bit better. Those of you who teach music have my great respect!!









Of course, she was pretty hot and any excuse was fair game...

 

[mikeandronda]

I give guitar lessons for a living..........been playing 19 yrs. teaching for bout 12.....also wasnt a natural......had to work for every skill a had .....Including learning how to teach and have patience with those less interested or not talented....... I have a student who quite frankly is struggling and has been from day one......The simple beginner lesson I start all my students out on took forever and in some cases he could not master them. Now I am a firm believer in teaching some on how to play the guitar....not them paying me to teach them songs..........I tell my students Im gonna teach you to figure out the songs on your own.......Well over the years I have learned that each student is a bit differnt........My struggleing student now is able to play pretty well. It took teaching him metallica songs......not the way I wanted but a way that was successful.........I gauge my success as a teacher on how well I can teach my students....whether they are passonet or mom makes them come. Try a different aproach......

 

[sweetpeee]

I would just show him barre chords (only first and fifth notes) and forget the thirds for now. Forget scales, forget theory. For most people instant gratification takes too long!!

Have him get ONE of his favorite tunes down cold. That's it! Once he can play a tune, then I would open up the world of theory and full barre chords to him.

J.P.

 

[Monsoon]

How old is the student. My kid is 6 and I wouldn't dream of introducing bar chords yet. And younger kids have trouble with timing and tempo. Generally, that comes later.

I didn't learn bar chords until I had been playing for quite a while. Mastered single note transitions, timing, and open chords first. You may be pushing too hard in the wrong direction.

 

[Natural Gass]

Thanks for all the input - you guys (gals) are great keep it coming!

The kid is a male in 8th grade. About the same age as me when I started playing (I'm now 42). I jumped right into barre chords when I started playing - well maybe it was a single note bass line to Good Vibrations first, but I didn't stay with the single note stuff very long.

Back in the "old days" we didn't have the benefit of downloading tab from the internet. For me it was more a matter of putting on Van Halen 1 and saying man, I'm going to learn how to play like that. Then I grabbed some simpler things - Taking Care Of Business, Smoke On The Water, Jumpin Jack Flash, and on and on and learned by listening and trial and error. It just seemed so simple to learn songs moving barre chords around the neck.

I did have the advantage of church chior at an early age (5 or 6 years old) and they did a great job teaching us kids how to read music and simple music theory - I'm greatfull to my Mom still today for getting me into choir at an early age!

My student has no musical background at all yet. I do want to teach him some basic theory, open chords, and some "pretty things", but thought I would first get him to the point where he can bang-out his favorite (simple) songs. He's got the first main thing down though - learn to play guitar to IMPRESS THE CHICKS!!

 

[Dave_M]

I remember my guitar teacher had been taking me through Mel Bays books. I started at age nine and by age 11 still wasn't playing any songs but the stuff in the Mel Bay books. Then a friend showed me "spider chromatics" that his teacher had taught him. More than anything, I believe those spider chromatics strengthened my fingers and led me to find a different teacher (because I was acually accomplishing more from the stuff my 12 year old friend was showing me). Give the spider chromatics a shot. They've worked with a few folks I taught. They're so simple but very effective.

 

[Henry Mars]

First off ....I taught and studied guitar for a lot of years.

A guitar is not a good first exposure ... I really believe that a year or two of piano lessons and music theory go a long way after which it can be aplied to the guitar.
When a student came to me for guitar lessons I would use the Berklee Guitar Books along with finger exercises to build strength. When a student could pick notes cleanly using the technique I taught I would give them songs to learn and try to explain scales and theory as we progressed .... (when they were able I made them transpose everything ino a few differnt keys) all of my students had to learn to read music or I would cut them.
I guess talent has something to do with it ... all I know is that the ones who did what I asked got results. I didn't use chord books they had to figure all of that out. Yea I was a task master .... but a lot of my students from 20 years ago have thanked me for being a hard ass. The learned a lot from me and a lot more on their own using the skills I taught them.
I would't get frustrated with dead weight .... cut them loose. Your mental health is at least as important.