Gibson quality - dead horse

mandocaster

mandocaster

non compos mentis
I have been feeling GAS for an ES-175 lately. A local place (House of Guitars) used to be a Gibson dealer before Gibson screwed all of their dealers. They sold off all of their stock, but they have one left - a red ES-175.
It sounded really nice, but there were a few pretty serious and obvious flaws.
There was a groove in the fretboard behind one of the frets.
There were several sloppy spots in the binding.
The nut seemed poorly cut.
The frets seemed rough.
The rosewood used for the fretboard was extremely coarse and open grained, with a very light color.

So what is up with that? This guitar has a street value of around 3 grand. A cursory look at it by QC would have labeled it a second. How can Gibson think they should make guitars like this?

1970s Gibsons were supposed to be so lousy, but I have never seen one with as many glaring problems as this one.
 
mandocaster said:
They sold off all of their stock, but they have one left - a red ES-175.
QUOTE]

i hate to point out the obvious, but they sold out their entire stock, and this is the last one left eh?
perhaps there is a reason its still there and nobody else bought it...
id say dont settle for it... there are plenty of fish in the sea:D

and by fish i mean red ES-175's :D:D:D hehehe

good luck with however it goes
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random.hero said:
mandocaster said:
They sold off all of their stock, but they have one left - a red ES-175.
QUOTE]

i hate to point out the obvious, but they sold out their entire stock, and this is the last one left eh?
perhaps there is a reason its still there and nobody else bought it...
id say dont settle for it... there are plenty of fish in the sea:D

and by fish i mean red ES-175's :D:D:D hehehe

good luck with however it goes
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Yeah, but...
Am I crazy? Has anyone else objected to Gibson quality recently?
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I just bought an 06 CS-356 and it's pretty damned near flawless cosmetically.

It may have to have the frets leveled but the jury is still out. Also I think the nut is a bit low but that was done by a setup guy and not by Gibson.

I'm also having a bit of an issue with some vibration noise off the pickguard because it is cut butt-tight between the pickup mounts.

But bindings, fit and finish are among the best I've seen on any instrument anywhere.

Maybe all their lefty's are just special. :p
 
c7sus said:
I just bought an 06 CS-356 and it's pretty damned near flawless cosmetically.

It may have to have the frets leveled but the jury is still out. Also I think the nut is a bit low but that was done by a setup guy and not by Gibson.

I'm also having a bit of an issue with some vibration noise off the pickguard because it is cut butt-tight between the pickup mounts.

But bindings, fit and finish are among the best I've seen on any instrument anywhere.

Maybe all their lefty's are just special. :p
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That's a good point. Lefty's might get more attention because of their lower production numbers.
 
mandocaster said:
Yeah, but...
Am I crazy? Has anyone else objected to Gibson quality recently?
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I think the best value in a gibson are the mid 70's pauls.....less than 2 grand for a custom. All the ones i've played are better quality than the brand new ones.
 
If it's the last Gibson they had, I wouldn't expect much. That said, I haven't cared much for what I've seem coming out of Memphis. For that kind of money I'd look at a Heritage if you want to go domestic, or Eastman for overseas.
 
jimistone said:
I think the best value in a gibson are the mid 70's pauls.....less than 2 grand for a custom. All the ones i've played are better quality than the brand new ones.
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You got that right. Some of the Norlin era electrics are great. My ES 150D is as nicely made as anything they've done. Their acoustics back then were hit and miss though.

Hell, people have been complaining about Gibson's QC for over 100 years.
 
philboyd studge said:
You got that right. Some of the Norlin era electrics are great. My ES 150D is as nicely made as anything they've done. Their acoustics back then were hit and miss though.

Hell, people have been complaining about Gibson's QC for over 100 years.
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I agree about the acoustics from that era....but I have played a mid-70's hummingbird that is beyond exceptional. Probably the best playing and sounding acuostic i've ever held in my hands.

God I wish I had that one!
Belongs to a friend of mine and he told me he would trade it for my '66 strat....that I bought at age 16.

I don't want it that bad...but close to that bad.
 
do you ever slack off at work, maybe a bad day, so you just try to get through?

maybe that poor guy on the QC line was having one of those days and just said, 'the hell with it' and didnt even look at the guitars he passed.

if your into being a scam artist, buy it, and buy one from say musiciansfriend. put the crap one in the musicians friend box and call up for an RMA because of the poor quality, and get your money back.

I do Not Endorse the practice of screwing people over; these are just my thoughts, i am not telling you to do it, nor do i like that kind of thing, no red chiclets please.
 
I haven't found a new Gibson in years that was worth what was being asked. That's why I bought a Godin when I wanted a new axe.
 
The tenon on my Gibson's neck is too small for the groove it is to fit. So, in addition to the rear gap, which is common, I have a gap on the "toward the floor" edge! Thank god they used enough glue to hold the neck in place. Hamer has a process of of cnc'ing both the the tenon and groove but they make the groove to small and must make it larger by hand to get each neck an ideal fit. I heard a story from a guitar store owner who builds his own custom line of jazz guitars. The story is that Gibson puts a slight rocker on the bottom or back of the tenon so that they set the angle to each guitar and excess glue fills in the gaps. He refuses to work on Gibson's with neck issues. Don't know if this is true as he seems like a bitter one and he does not sell Gibby's. Wouldn't suprise me though.
 
thanks for the neg rep, i said it was an idea and not to do that. leave your name so i can give it back. you must be a newb because it didnt affect my rep at all...

yes there might be an issue with the serial numbers, i wouldnt advise trying it.

ever see the ibanez articore series? those are pretty sweet gibson-looking guitars.
 
DogFood said:
The tenon on my Gibson's neck is too small for the groove it is to fit. So, in addition to the rear gap, which is common, I have a gap on the "toward the floor" edge! Thank god they used enough glue to hold the neck in place. Hamer has a process of of cnc'ing both the the tenon and groove but they make the groove to small and must make it larger by hand to get each neck an ideal fit. I heard a story from a guitar store owner who builds his own custom line of jazz guitars. The story is that Gibson puts a slight rocker on the bottom or back of the tenon so that they set the angle to each guitar and excess glue fills in the gaps. He refuses to work on Gibson's with neck issues. Don't know if this is true as he seems like a bitter one and he does not sell Gibby's. Wouldn't suprise me though.
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Most Gibson's DO have a "rocker" tennon. The thing is, it is NOT a problem. As long as the sides of the tennon are tight (they are), and the cheeks of the tennon are as they should be (no gap betweeen the neck and the body), your fine. This is quite standard woodworking practice, and quite typical in guitar neck construction.

I'm not going to get involved in the overall question of Gibson's QC, but THIS is one which is a complete non-issue.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I agree. The 70s stuff is supposed to be terrible but I think it gets a bad rap. A lot of the issues can be cured with some string saver saddles, a set of Schallers and a good set up. The new ones, I can't explain it, something's just missing. Maybe part of it is that the world is running out of good wood or they don't take as much pride in their electronics. If you're in the market for a Kalamazoo Gibson look up Heritage, they make really really nice stuff (ex-Gibson employees making Gibsons in Kalamazoo, MI). I came within an eyelash of buying their 335 and it felt like a dream.
 
hungovermorning said:
The new ones, I can't explain it, something's just missing. Maybe part of it is that the world is running out of good wood...
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It's not. There is PLENTY of good wood out there. Some of the speices which have been used in the past are in short supply, it's true, but there are MANY other speices out there that are just as good or better.

The difference is that the new guitars aren't old. Old guitars sound different, and there is no way around it. There is also no way to completely explain it. Partially it is that the glues and finishes continue to dry, but there is more to it. What it is, I don't know (no one does), but it almost seems as though the guitar "gets used" to being a guitar. It is hard to explain, but it is there, no question.



hungovermorning said:
If you're in the market for a Kalamazoo Gibson look up Heritage, they make really really nice stuff (ex-Gibson employees making Gibsons in Kalamazoo, MI). I came within an eyelash of buying their 335 and it felt like a dream.
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Heritage makes amazing guitars. I miss mine all the time.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral.
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
The difference is that the new guitars aren't old. Old guitars sound different, and there is no way around it. There is also no way to completely explain it. Partially it is that the glues and finishes continue to dry, but there is more to it. What it is, I don't know (no one does), but it almost seems as though the guitar "gets used" to being a guitar. It is hard to explain, but it is there, no question.
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I've found that to be true with any guitar regardless of brand, price, etc. It's like guitars soak up some mojo over time. Every guitar that I've ever owned for a long period of time sounds better with age.
 
Light, my Gibson's tenon the cheeks do not touch on both sides, as stated before which bugs me. I've owned the guitar for 15 years and I don't think the neck is going to fall off it just bugs me. Question, with CNC machining being very accurate is it still necessary to rocker the tenon? I know wood is not stable material, as in, if you machine wood I expect a change in moisture can change an angle as it relates to a tenon.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
I've found that to be true with any guitar regardless of brand, price, etc. It's like guitars soak up some mojo over time. Every guitar that I've ever owned for a long period of time sounds better with age.
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It's cause they're still kind of used to being a tree.
 
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