Gibson guitars: why the high cost?

[andyhix]

alright, I'll be the idiot. What is the binding, exactly? You guys got me all worried that my LP that I love is a piece of crap. Well, not really. I like the sound, so I guess thats all that matters.

 

[lpdeluxe]

That's right. I'll give you fifty bucks for your pitiful LP, if you throw in the case.

 

[hixmix]

re: "What's the binding, exactly?"

It's the thin strip of white plastic, etc., that sometimes frames the body and/or the fretboard.

 

[andyhix]

oh, so its not a construction or performance thing, but a cosmetic deal, eh? Well, I guess except for the neck shrinkage issue mentioned earlier. Big whoop. my gits beat to high hell anyway, so I don't care about a little uneven trim, I guess.

NIce to see the Hix's are taking over.

thanks. I'll sleep better knowing that my ugly guitar is ok.

 

[Light]

oh, so its not a construction or performance thing, but a cosmetic deal, eh? Well, I guess except for the neck shrinkage issue mentioned earlier. Big whoop. my gits beat to high hell anyway, so I don't care about a little uneven trim, I guess.

NIce to see the Hix's are taking over.

thanks. I'll sleep better knowing that my ugly guitar is ok.

It is mostly cosmetic, but binding also serves to protect the edge of the instrument from damage, as it is more durable than the wood.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[spankenstein]

Last year I toured the Gibson factory in Memphis while on my honeymoon. One of the things they do is if a guitar doesn't meet their quality standards the whole thing is gone. All the hardware goes with the guitar because it's "tainted." It was something like 30% of the guitars get scrapped. That's a lot of money in pickups, tuning keys, knobs, bridges... seemed REALLY wasteful.

 

[dragonworks]

My ES335 was built in 1972, it looks brand new almost and has never had a problem in 32 years, that is one reason they can charge a little more.
The saddles for the bass strings are beginning to show a little wear, other than that, she plays like she is brand new.

 

[Light]

Last year I toured the Gibson factory in Memphis while on my honeymoon. One of the things they do is if a guitar doesn't meet their quality standards the whole thing is gone. All the hardware goes with the guitar because it's "tainted." It was something like 30% of the guitars get scrapped. That's a lot of money in pickups, tuning keys, knobs, bridges... seemed REALLY wasteful.

I promise you they do not throw out anywhere NEAR 30% of their production. More than a few of their guitars come out of the factory with MAJOR flaws. I make thousands of dollars a year off of Gibson for just this reason. They may tell the tours this, but it is just marketing, I promise you.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[bongolation]

We're experiencing some mission drift here. To get back on track, we're asking WHY Gibsons cost so much.

The facts are that these are machine-built instruments with a very small amount of semi-skilled hand detailing and currently constructed from cheap Asian-import component parts and subassemblies. Their cosmetic flaws are blatant, and their tonal inconsistency is a source of many complaints from those who get past the surface flaws.

There is no explanation that I can see that these instruments should bear $2500+ MSRPs. The only legitimate reason would be lots of expensive, meticulous hand detailing and perfect QC, which I think everyone here has conceded they simply don't have.

Nobody's answered the question with an objective explanation of why these prices are justified.

All I can see is that Gibson gets these prices because people are ignorant.

 

[randyfromde]

Nobody's answered the question with an objective explanation of why these prices are justified.

All I can see is that Gibson gets these prices because people are ignorant.

It's supply and demand. Since you can't see it, you shouldn't be throwing around the word "ignorant".....

 

[bongolation]

It's supply and demand. Since you can't see it, you shouldn't be throwing around the word "ignorant".....

Supply and demand is merely the mechanism Gibson exploits to get the proverbial fool to soon part with his money. It doesn't give a rational justification why a prudent and informed person would find Gibson's mid- and high-end MSRPs reasonable compared to the standards of the marketplace or the costs of production.

 

[Light]

We're experiencing some mission drift here. To get back on track, we're asking WHY Gibsons cost so much.

The facts are that these are machine-built instruments with a very small amount of semi-skilled hand detailing and currently constructed from cheap Asian-import component parts and subassemblies. Their cosmetic flaws are blatant, and their tonal inconsistency is a source of many complaints from those who get past the surface flaws.

There is no explanation that I can see that these instruments should bear $2500+ MSRPs. The only legitimate reason would be lots of expensive, meticulous hand detailing and perfect QC, which I think everyone here has conceded they simply don't have.

Nobody's answered the question with an objective explanation of why these prices are justified.

All I can see is that Gibson gets these prices because people are ignorant.

We have said it many times. Name recognition. It goes a long way, and Gibson charges what they do because they can. It is the same as any other business, you charge what you can, because that is what the market will bear.

Oh, and there is not much in the way of imported assembles in a $4,500 Gibson. They make most of the stuff with the Gibson name here in the USA.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[freshmattyp]

I see a simple solution for you, bongo. Don't buy a Gibson guitar. Feel free to give fair warning if you must for people who might ask your opinion, but don't presume to tell Gibson owners that we're fools.

You're just another guitar owner with an internet connection and an axe to grind. As light just pointed out, some of your suppositions are dead wrong or at the very least misguided. Gibson charges what they charge because they can. The market determines whether they can get the price they set. Much like free agency in sports. It's worth what the market will pay. No more, no less.

 

[bongolation]

We have said it many times. Name recognition. It goes a long way, and Gibson charges what they do because they can. It is the same as any other business, you charge what you can, because that is what the market will bear.

Oh, and there is not much in the way of imported assembles in a $4,500 Gibson. They make most of the stuff with the Gibson name here in the USA.

I'd be curious to examine the US$4500 LP here on the bench. I'm currently trying to find out how high up the foodchain the Asian parts currently are going. I do know that they are pretty extensive in the US$2500 and under range. From what I've been able to gather, there was a major outsourcing to Gotoh a couple of years ago, and there's definitely a lot of cheaper parts on the low- to mid-priced Gibsons.

As for name recognition, it certainly does go a long way if exploited properly - but wouldn't you say in Gibson's case it's gone quite a bit too far from a consumer's standpoint?

 

[bongolation]

some of your suppositions are dead wrong or at the very least misguided.

Please, on which points am I factually wrong and what are the correct facts?

 

[Light]

Well, I see Gibsons of all price ranges on my bench almost every day, and I have to say, I can not tell the difference between a bridge made in the USA and one made in Asia. If the machining is good, it doesn’t matter where it was made. I do, however, have a very good relationship with our warranty center rep, and the woodworking and finish work on most Gibsons is done right in the factory, which is the part that actually matters.

As for an erroneous assumption, it is a major error to assume that having Gotoh do the machining of hardware would be a bad thing. Gotoh is doing, by far, the best hardware on the market. They come up with very cool solutions to the smallest of problems all of the time. The 510 series hardware is a large order of magnitude better than anything else on the market, and until someone catches up or surpasses them, I will not use anything but the 510 Delta series tuners on any guitar I build. They are just so much better. There is NO play in the shafts, the tolerance on the gears is at a theoretical maximum, and the plating amazing. I have to say that I have not seen any Gibson hardware that shows any signs of being made by Gotoh, but it is hard to tell with OEM stuff. If they are, then all I can say is, good on ya, mate. I don't think it is true though, as the plating on most Gibson hardware that I receive is not nearly as good as I would expect from Gotoh. If Gotoh made the hardware I need for my instruments, I would be getting all of my hardware from them, without question.

The real reason the Gibson name is so good, however, is that they have been making great guitars for well over 100 years. They would have to be a lot worse than they are for a long time to damage their reputation.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[juststartingout]

Bongo is correct about some things. In america, we don't go to work to make the best guitar or car or whatever, we go there to make a living. I know, that's a very sad viewpoint, but it is true with large companies.

If you are looking for why they are higher priced, it's marketting. What will the market bare to buy a product. It's as simple as that.

I remember about 10 years ago, my boss came to me and ask me to write a program. It took about 2 hours for me to do it, and he turned around and sold it for $2,500. When I confronted him about it, he said, it's not what time or materials it took, it's what the market would bear for it. I learned a lot about marketting from him. The other thing that stuck with me is that if you price things too low, people won't pick it up. Price it higher, and everyone will look at it and want one.

If you want a Gibson, then pay their price, if not, get something else. If you want perfection, get it custom built.

 

[Light]

If you want perfection, get it custom built.

Amen (I get to be a little self serving every now and then).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[freshmattyp]

Please, on which points am I factually wrong and what are the correct facts?

Had you bothered to quote the whole sentence rather than taking the end out of context, you would have answered your own question. Reread my post, and the one by light immediately above it. Now go play a guitar you feel is worthy of your dollars.

 

[revoltingyouth]

If you want a Gibson, then pay their price, if not, get something else. If you want perfection, get it custom built.

bingo, i couldnt have said it better my self, the only company i know that we sell that is almost perfect from the factory every time is PRS. but you pay that much and you might as well get a custom made guitar.