Getting stereo result After mixdown

[spanishgrass@cs]

There's an interesting discussion going on over at the Fostex Forum about stereo sound. It all started with how to acheive a stereo sound when doing a mixdown on the VF160. Now its evolved into just exactly what is a stereo sound. My definition of stereo is all vocals and all instruments coming from all speakers, meaning left and right, at the same time. Yes, I realize that many recordings have an instrument or some paticular sound coming from one side only at times, but I consider that a matter of personal preference when recording and mixing. "THOUGHTS ANYONE"?

 

[Twitch]

You are right spanishgrass, left and right is stereo, so sounds from left and right speakers are stereo.. Are you hearing otherwise?

 

[spanishgrass@cs]

Here's what started this discussion. I am a solo musician. I recently recorded some songs into my VF160. My vocals into the left side on 2 tracks and my instrument into the right side on 2 tracks. Direct record mode. I did not pan left and right during mixdown. So the end result I got on the burned CD is my vocals and instrument coming out the left and right side. In other words, vocals and instrument coming out left side and vocals and instrument coming out right side. This is the result I want and assume is a stereo sound. However, in discussions at the Fostex forum its stated that I must pan the vocals left and the instrument right during mixdown to get a stereo sound on the burned CD. OK, I recorded a song and did just that. I panned my vocals left and my instrument right and burned. Now when I play the CD in my home player I hear my vocals only in the left speaker and my instrument only in the right speaker. If that is considered a stereo sound then I think it sounds like S**T. If I went to a live music venue and heard a solo musician performing in such a way I would get up and leave, even if it was Leo Kottke. If I purchase a CD and heard that I would demand my money back. So, judging from what I've been able to understand from the Tech articles on stereo sound that I've read, it would appear that the original definition of stereo has changed since its beginning. I'm 60 years old so I was around when it came about. So, I guess it is a matter of personal preference as to what "Stereo" means. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, because I would really like to get a good handle on this. I want to get the best possible sound onto my home produced CD's.

 

[Twitch]

You are right about

, I guess it is a matter of personal preference as to what "Stereo" means

I have never heard of (it has to be like this) panning vocals left and instruments right at mixdown unless you like that type of sound.. However I have heard of recording your tracks like 1,3,5,7,9, panned left and even on the right, to aviod excess noise.. that's why manufactors create mono tracks and stereo tracks on the mixing console or recorders. THEN when it's time to mixdown you adjust your tracks (pan,eq..etc.) to your own taste..like I said in the Fostex Forum it's your world

 

[spariam]

Here's what started this discussion. I am a solo musician. I recently recorded some songs into my VF160. My vocals into the left side on 2 tracks and my instrument into the right side on 2 tracks. Direct record mode. I did not pan left and right during mixdown. So the end result I got on the burned CD is my vocals and instrument coming out the left and right side. In other words, vocals and instrument coming out left side and vocals and instrument coming out right side. This is the result I want and assume is a stereo sound.

That sounds like mono to me...if I understand what you're saying. Your recording (the mixed track burnt to CD) can ony be stereo if the signals in left and right channels are different in some way. If everything is panned in the middle, that's mono, as the same signal will be in left and right channels.

Having only two tracks to work with isn't going to allow you to do much more than either mix as mono, have vocals out of one channel and instrument out of other (which is stereo, but not real pleasing), or add stereo effect to mono tracks (delay, etc) at mixdown. Two channels doesn't always mean stereo...the output of two channels is mono if the same exact signal is coming out of L and R.

Unless you're recording in stereo (two mics or input sources), then you don't need to record the vocals on two tracks and the instrument on two tracks. If you're recording with one mic into a L/R track pair (like 7/8), it's mono no matter how you pan it, since it's the same signal. If you did record in stereo, then pan the vocal track L/R and pan the instrument track L/R. If you recorded in stereo, you'll get a stereo mix.

If you use one input source or mic, then use one track. If you use two mics or signal sources, record on two tracks (or track pair). No matter how you record, if everything is panned center, it will be mono...

If you're recording something simple like voice and guitar, you'd could either use one track for guitar and one track for voice and pan everything center for mono...or you could do something like double track the guitar (two mono tracks) and pan them left and right, or record your guitar with two mics (stereo on two tracks) and pan those two tracks left and right, or use a stereo effect on a mono source (voice and/or guitar).

Depending on what your trying to do, if it were me, I'd probably record my guitar in stereo, pan it left and right, and put the vocal down the middle...nothing fancy.

 

[carelessorc]

Spanish I read the other thread - there is much confusion. I think you need to get back to basics.
Let me try to help:
Monaural sound (mono) is sound from one source.
So, for example, if you record a voice with one microphone it is mono - it doesn't matter how many tracks you record it to.
But mono sound is not natural - cos we have two ears, so stereo was developed.
Stereo uses two sound sources - in this case two mics on the voice, each recorded to its own track. Note that to get the proper stereo effect on playback, the two tracks would need to be panned hard left and right.
Of course what we often do with multitrackers is we record a track in mono, but when we mix down we create an artificial stereo field (boy, are we clever).
Think of your stereo mix as a band on stage, each instrument and voice in a slightly different place, from left to right across the stage. On the VF you place each instrument in its own place left to right using the pan control on each channel. You can put the instrument/voice anywhere you like - you're the producer!
Some sound sources, like keyboards (and most outboard effects units), are already in stereo, so you need to bring them into the VF on two channels, panned hard left and right (if you pan the channels to the centre you lose the stereo effect - try it).
Finally do you use internal mixdown? If so you need to pan the channels of the mix (Ch 1 & 2 ) left and right, to get the stereo effect.

I hope this helps.

Orc

 

[spanishgrass@cs]

Thanks orc for that reply. Your description does clear it up much better. So it appears that the only way for me to acheive a stereo result is record with 2 mics [vocals] and 2 for instrument. Then it would be just a matter of tweaking everything to my liking. Thanks again everyone for your input.

 

[YeshuasFan]

For whatever my input is worth here.
When you mic the guitar, aim one mic toward the neck, and the other slightly off to the left the soundhole (facing toward the guitar--to the right of the soundhole facing toward the mic) toward the.

Another technique would be to close mic the guitar, and then to place the second mic 6-10 feet away to pick up some room ambiance.

And finally, if your guitar has a pickup, run a DI signal into the mixer and then use distance micing.

Using any of these techniques should yield two guitar tracks with slightly different sonic/tonal qualities which should liven up the mix somewhat, especially since the difference in distance between the mics or pu/mic combo should also yield a natural delay into the mix.

And if you're worried about having to duplicate a recorded part in live performance--as Phil Keaggy once observed, "Bless the person who invented the JamMan."

Happy tracking!

 

[Beck]

Two speakers do not = stereo. If the instruments are recorded monaurally and are equal in each speaker you will hear everything in the center as if you only had one speaker.

Is anyone really wondering about this or is this a joke? And so the joke is on me then, right?

Please tell me there aren’t really people debating this, even on a home recording forum... please! (Me grabbing you by the collar) For the love of God! (In my best Jake Elwood)

 

[carelessorc]

I say, steady on old chap.
It is one of those topics that makes you feel like reality is slipping away - we all take stereo for granted, but, of course with the proliferation of recording stuff available today, it's probably easy to overlook some basics like stereo.

Actually I think homerecordists are often better off working in mono (John Lennon preferred it, apparently).

Orc