Getting he drums to fit in the mix like the Beatles'...

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Rickson Gracie

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I am well aware that getting Ringo to play is a factor.

I was listening to "Day in a Life" and a bunch of other Beatles classics and noticed that the drums are very "thin" sounding yet sit very well in the mix. They are clear and present yet almost brittle sounding. Almost the opposite of Bonham's sound. The snare is thin sounding but sounds great in the mix. Definitely not a boomy sound.

Does anyone know what I am talking about? What is the trick to getting this sound. Is it in the mix down? Is it a special way to compress the sound? Or EQ the drums?
 
Are you listening to stereo or mono recordings? Original source or digitaly remastered CD?
 
Listen to those songs with headphones on, or with the speaker balance all the way to one side, then the other side. They panned drums almost hard left or right, changing it up. I've also heard they would cover the entire set with a sheet. Of course, I've also heard that Ringo didn't record much of the Beatles drum tracks because he was such the boozer, for whatever thats worth. Also,
EMI's the Complete Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Story of the Abbey Road Years would be good reading.
 
Rickson Gracie said: I am well aware that getting Ringo to play is a factor.

I was listening to "Day in a Life" and a bunch of other Beatles classics and noticed that the drums are very "thin" sounding yet sit very well in the mix. They are clear and present yet almost brittle sounding. Almost the opposite of Bonham's sound. The snare is thin sounding but sounds great in the mix. Definitely not a boomy sound.

Does anyone know what I am talking about? What is the trick to getting this sound. Is it in the mix down? Is it a special way to compress the sound? Or EQ the drums?

My reply: Hire Sir George Martin to produce you?
 
Ringo's drums were often recorded with the studio accoustic dividers quite close. On a couple of songs, they moved him into the hall way and recorded there for a natural echo/reverb. For "Yer Blues", they crammed everyone and everything into an 8' x 10' room.

Almost every effect used on Beatles recordings were done manually. There were physics considerations also. Too much bottom would cause the needle to jump off the record, so you can almost not even hear the kick drum. Much of McCartney's bass playing is played in a high register.
 
Ringo etc.

ez_willis said:
Listen to those songs with headphones on, or with the speaker balance all the way to one side, then the other side. They panned drums almost hard left or right, changing it up. I've also heard they would cover the entire set with a sheet. Of course, I've also heard that Ringo didn't record much of the Beatles drum tracks because he was such the boozer, for whatever thats worth. Also,
EMI's the Complete Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Story of the Abbey Road Years would be good reading.
Click to expand...

The Beatles recordings that had the drums panned hard left or right were the result of American record company executives mistakenly re-mastering some tracks from the 4 track masters around the early '70 s for the 'Red' (The Beatles 1962-66) and the 'Blue' (The Beatles: 1967-70) double albums (which functioned as Greatest Hits in a way). George Martin wasn't involved in the project and was aghast at hearing the tracks.

As for the idea that Ringo didn't play on some tracks, as any of Lewisohn's books, and a basic awareness of multitracking, will show, this is a myth. All of the White Album tracks (including 'Sgt. Peppers') were recorded on a four track machines (sometimes linking two machines together). Because there were often multiple instruments, parts had to be recorded 'sound on sound', i.e., three of the four tracks would be recorded, and then combined by being bounced to the fourth track, 'locking in' all of the previous parts.

Because the rhythm tracks (incl. Ringo's drums) were put down first, it was impossible to re-add the basic drum parts later, so it's impossible for Ringo to not have been on these tracks. That accusation was made by a really famous session drummer in 'The Big Beat', Max Weinberg's book of interviews with 14 or so really famous and great drummers (including Ringo).

Just a little info. :)

I really like Ringo's snare sound, particularly on The White Album, and on the 'Please Please Me' album. Greenday's snare sound is very similar to this, on 'Good Riddance (The Time of Your Life)'. I always aim to make that my 'standard'/reference snare sound.

GVDV
 
Yeah, get a time machine. Not even that wretched agent of Satan, Lenny Kravitz can get those sounds after buying the console they were recorded on.
 
gvdv said:
The Beatles recordings that had the drums panned hard left or right were the result of American record company executives mistakenly re-mastering some tracks from the 4 track masters around the early '70 s for the 'Red' (The Beatles 1962-66) and the 'Blue' (The Beatles: 1967-70) double albums (which functioned as Greatest Hits in a way). George Martin wasn't involved in the project and was aghast at hearing the tracks.
Click to expand...
Huh? You should listen to It's 'Getting Better', 'Fixing a Hole', 'Lovely Rita', etc.. off of Sgt. Peppers, and most of the Abbey Road and Magical Mystery Tour recordings. The drums are panned.

gvdv said:
As for the idea that Ringo didn't play on some tracks, as any of Lewisohn's books, and a basic awareness of multitracking, will show, this is a myth. All of the White Album tracks (including 'Sgt. Peppers') were recorded on a four track machines (sometimes linking two machines together). Because there were often multiple instruments, parts had to be recorded 'sound on sound', i.e., three of the four tracks would be recorded, and then combined by being bounced to the fourth track, 'locking in' all of the previous parts.
Because the rhythm tracks (incl. Ringo's drums) were put down first, it was impossible to re-add the basic drum parts later, so it's impossible for Ringo to not have been on these tracks. That accusation was made by a really famous session drummer in 'The Big Beat', Max Weinberg's book of interviews with 14 or so really famous and great drummers (including Ringo). GVDV
Click to expand...
1. This assumes that Ringo played on the original tracks
2. I said "for whatever thats worth", as to imply that this is merely hearsay, not an actual fact.
 
ez_willis said:
Huh? You should listen to It's 'Getting Better', 'Fixing a Hole', 'Lovely Rita', etc.. off of Sgt. Peppers, and most of the Abbey Road and Magical Mystery Tour recordings. The drums are panned.


1. This assumes that Ringo played on the original tracks
2. I said "for whatever thats worth", as to imply that this is merely hearsay, not an actual fact.
Click to expand...
I had heard that one too, actually. The rumor (that's all I will call it, I have no facts to back it up), was that Ringo's playing in those days was so sloppy that Paul himself would actually go back and play the drum parts over.
But I think it's just a good story someone dreamed up to cause a stir. I've heard his playing on his solo albums and he's just as tight and on time as he was back then.
 
Rokket said:
I had heard that one too, actually. The rumor (that's all I will call it, I have no facts to back it up), was that Ringo's playing in those days was so sloppy that Paul himself would actually go back and play the drum parts over.
But I think it's just a good story someone dreamed up to cause a stir. I've heard his playing on his solo albums and he's just as tight and on time as he was back then.
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But now he's sober, to further the mystery...... :rolleyes:
 
He's still great, though. I remember seeing him as the conductor on some kid's show and wondering how the hell you go from rock icon to bit player, but I guess the drinking had something to do with it.
I still have the greatest respect for all the Fab 4. The things they were able to accomplish with the technology they had will probably forever be a benchmark we all will strive for.
 
Rokket said:
I still have the greatest respect for all the Fab 4. The things they were able to accomplish with the technology they had will probably forever be a benchmark we all will strive for.
Click to expand...

Amen, Brother! In so little time together, too! :)
 
actually these are stereo recrdoing i am listing to and i also love the mixes from the anthology DVD.
 
Check out the recently released 'Recording The Beatles' (I paid $124 U.S. but it was worth it and it will, no doubt, come out much cheaper in a paperback, sans the deluxe packaging). This gives lots of information about this subject.

Also the poster who asked whether or not the OP was listening to the mono or stereo versions made a great point because until after 'Sgt. Pepper' The Fabs spent a lot of effort mixing the mono versions, and very little effort on the stereo ones. So, placement of various instruments was often very different on the stereo versions.

Tea towels on the drums, by the way.

GVDV
 
Rokket said:
they...will probably forever be a benchmark we all will strive for.
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I think that might be more a reflection on those striving for it than it is on the Beatles themselves.

[*ducks*]

:D

G.
 
My dad loves tellin this old story, i'm not sure how true it is but its fun:)

Reporter - "Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?"
John Lennon - "He's not even the best fukin drummer in the beatles"
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I think that might be more a reflection on those striving for it than it is on the Beatles themselves.

[*ducks*]

:D

G.
Click to expand...
'nuff said :D
 
elementary said:
My dad loves tellin this old story, i'm not sure how true it is but its fun:)

Reporter - "Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?"
John Lennon - "He's not even the best fukin drummer in the beatles"
Click to expand...


HAHHAHAHAHA, that is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!

I don't know how true it is either, but it's sure going to spread like the flu!!
 
Rokket said:
...The things they were able to accomplish... will probably forever be a benchmark we all will strive for.
Click to expand...

+1 :)

Transcendent music.

Yeah, Paul could probably have played all the instrumental parts better than the other guys, and I've heard too that he would go back into the studio after their sessions and re-do various parts the guys had done. But, whatever happened with that, it was the group dynamic as a whole that made the chemistry happen to create those recordings.

I really wish I could go back in time and see them in Hamburg when they were playing clubs.
 
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