general recording advice

[musicfest]

hi, something I haven't been able to figure out with recording (im new to this). How do you record a band? Do you start off by recording the drums then guitars then bass? whats the best order to do things? (all at the same time?) What's the best way to co-ordinate a recording session so that timing is not out etc? If anyone could offer some advice or tell me where to find it on the site here (i've been looking). that would be great! thanks again!

 

[Even]

well opinions vary, but it is almost always a given that drums go down first. That gives everyone else the sence of timing that they will need to do their tracks in sync. The bass line is next. going for foundation here. next is where folks all argue. have your vocalist sing a dummy track along with the rythem guitar. keep the guitar, redo the vocals later. This is one of those timing things again. Everyone wants to be set perfectly with everyone else, but for quailty you only want to record one track at a time. Let the engineer work out levels and effects later. Last thing captured will be solo instruments. that and all those silly shakers and claps and stuff. This is just the way I have done it, I know others have their own bibles on this.

 

[drstawl]

I'm a big fan of the "record it all at once"
school, just because this delivers the best sense of a "band" playing. Some of the best recordings of my band were done with two mics. The one at a time thing requires thought in different areas than the "record the band live in the studio" method. The "all at once" method trades off tweakability at a later date for that "tight" sound now. The one at a time method trades off the "tight" sound of the live band for the convenience of unlimited retries to get it right, plus the ability to tweak it further at the mixdown stage. Hope this helps.

 

[Dom Franco]

Here's another way....
1. Record a metronome or drum machine
simple beat for the length of the song.
2. have the guitar or key board player and vocalist put down a "scratch" track.
3. Record Drums alone or with bass and guitar if available. (They keep time with the metronome)
4. Once the drums are down and a good
groove is captured for the song, you can erase and re-use the scratch tracks and metronome.

This has several advantages;
A. The drummer and bass player can hear the arrangement and dynamics of the song from the scratch tracks.
B. The metronome keeps perfect time!
C. The singer wont burn out his/her voice from multiple takes during basic tracks.
D. You can schedule the singer/songwriter one day and get several songs on "Scratch" tracks. (Mabye the whole album)
Then you can have the rythym section come in later and save setup and teardown
time.
E. When the singer comes back in for the Vocal takes, he/she will be inspired by the awesome basic tracks!

Dom Franco

 

[sonusman]

I totally agree with drstrawl. Recording everyone at the same time, at least musically speaking will give the best sense of "band". Overdubbing is really quite overrated. I have found that the one instrument that requires the most time is drums. Once that is done, then the guitars take the next most time. Bass is next. Vocals are a snap, but this is the one track that I may want to do later, along with solos.

Here is another method that has proved it's weight for me.

Regardless of whether you will track everyone at once, or overdub after the drums are laid, try recording the whole song in one day, and if that goes quick, do a 2-3 hour push mix for later reference.

I say this because often, production preferences tend to change from day to day depending upon everyones mood, and your ears. I have found that most recordings that were done in the overdub route lack continuity. Continuity is probably the single most important thing you can do as an engineer.

If I am doing the overdub route, I will always fall back on the mic placement, and amp settings for guitars, bass, keys...etc....and definately mic placement for vocals. I do this regardless of whether it sounds good the next time or not to my ears. I have been doing this long enough to know that from day to day my ears hear just a bit different, and my preferences can be quite different. Without something to fall back on, if I were to change things every session, I would probably wind up with some really wacky stuff. But this is not always a bad thing of course.

Anyway, the advantage of recording all the parts in one day are.....1-You don't burn out the singer, or put undo pressure on them to crank out multiple songs in a session. They can approach each song for a short amount of time and really give it there all, and have a whole 24 hours to rest before the next vocal part is recorded. 2-The ideas that come from the gut, and early in sessions tend to be the best stuff. When you have too much time to think about parts and tones, you start making stale production. 3-Production tends to not sound cookie cutter. You tend to make things work together, and this gives each song it's own flavor.

I could go on, but hey, just one opinion here.

Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com

 

[musicfest]

Hey, thanks for all the great advice, I've seen a video called `single video theory' based on the recording of the Pearl Jam album Yield. I've noticed (well I think).. that they record a lot of stuff as a band, all playing at once? with my bands own recordings, to four track etc, I have noticed that we stuff up a lot less when we play together as a band... but I think there's a huge quality loss involved when we do things that way... I've been looking into computer based metronomes. does anyone have any suggestions regarding metronomes.. I'm keen to find out information/prices on setting up a cheap home-recording facility where we can record Drums/2x guitars/2x vocals and sometimes add a keyboard track aswell. I'm interested in spending as little money as possible (isn't everyone) to purchase either a sound card (probably 8 channels recording).. or a cheap mixer/recording console. That's another question I have.. I read in the magazine (audio technology australia) the whole issue of mixers and recorders (in the past being seperate) merging into one. We're after something that we can use to record tracks with, and edit extensively (mainly why im keen on getting a sound card and using Cubase or Cakewalk etc) while also being able to do a live mix of our band (rehersing etc).. to put it in simple terms, we're after something that we can record, practice and perform with, thats cheap!. Can anyone help out there?? I wasn't sure when I first joined here if I should advertise URLs but I've seen someone do it. Anyone interested in the Brisbane local music scene - check out. http://come.to/the_musicfest Thanks heaps everyone for all your great advice, I'm really suprised how well this bulletin board system works and how quick the responses have been!! Regards, Billy

 

[The Green Hornet]

Hey Festival of Music:

I had the luck to have a great keyboard person who owned his own jingle business in the Windy City stop at my studio to do a cut for his tour band to listen to.

First: He did the basic drum track; other drum licks were added after all the music was done.

Then, he did keys; then, strings, then bass, etc.

I did all the engineering but he used his ears to set the levels for the mix by listening to the monitors. All of the music was done on my DX-7 Synth.

If I am recording a vocal client, I get all of the music into the recorder before the singer arrives; then, it's just sing, go back, do it once more, save this cut and do another, etc. But, having the music ready does save time.

I like to mix the cuts as soon as possible as recommended by the above commentators. So, pick your road and record.

Have fun,

The Green Hornet

 

[musicfest]

hi everyone (again). thanks for all these great tips. I've learnt a lot since I've joined this BBS. I've read a few different opinions here. the whole *live* vs individual recording technique seems to be coming up a bit. If the drums go first, and the drummer really knows how the song goes if he/she can hear vocals/bass/guitar.. how do you co-ordinate the whole thing? (like I said I'm really new to all this) . Do you have the drummer listening to the guitars etc through headphones or something the mics on the drums don't pick up the guitars ??
I'm a little confused with the whole deal.

 

[Dom Franco]

Yes headphones are the way to go....
Invest in some phones and headphone &
Mic extension cables. Every one wears phones and goes direct into the mixer. If you have a separate room (Like a bedroom) to put the drums in and mic them, that makes it easier to record a guitar amp with a mic and still achieve separation.

I just went to great expense and effort building a sound proof wall between the control room and "live" room of my studio.
But now the "blessing" of this work is that I don't have to wear headphones while tracking drums, and I can hear the drum sounds through my monitor speakers, to know how they will sound recorded!

Sincerely;
Dom Franco

 

[musicfest]

hey,
thanks for all your advice everyone!!
it's been really great! one question I haven't been able to answer though, is whether or not I should go for a computer based system (sound card etc) or if we should use a digital machine (we've already gone through a TASCAM 424 and we're keen to go to something like a vs 880 or something - if we choose to go non-computer).. I think computer would be great, it's just that we can't seem to find out enough information on sound cards, and what they are capable of.
can anyone suggest a card that is 1. cheap
2. has - probably - 8 recording channels
3. if possible - lots of outputs
4. powerful chips (DSP i think its called) so that the computer isn't completely drained by our recordings.
5. a wide range of input socket/jack things (XLR if possible/1/4" plugs)
6. has the ability to have virtual tracks etc on the pc.. .such that, we could record say 8 tracks - drums (if it was miked up heaps) in 8 tracks, then record guitars (stereo) taking up 4 tracks etc..
Any advice would be great! I've found this site (since I started using it a few days ago) is more helpful than the Audio Magazine I buy, and it's free!!
Anyhow, any info on sound cards would help me/us a lot!!

thanks
Billy
(musicfest)

visit my site if you get time. its all about music in brisbane.
http://come.to/the_musicfest

 

[stalemayte]

I would go with a computer based system.