Gear!!!

[pandamonk]

Right guys, sorry about posting this in here, I just spend all my time here, and don't really know where else to post this.

I need some advice with what gear to buy.

I'm looking for 16 channels total. I'm thinking 2 delta 1010s with 12 ok pres, n 4 top notch. What 8 n 4 channel rack mountable pres should i get? For the 4 good pres, im thinking spl goldmike, and what good clean 2 channel rack mountable pre would you suggest?

I've been thinking about all this for ages, and i can't some to a conclusion. For 8 standard pres, i was thinking focusrite octopre le, but i'm not sure. I dunno if i'll be able to spend that much. I'm thinking about £500 for standard 12, then £500 for good 4 pres.

I'm also probably gonna get:
monitors
tascam vl-x5,
and m-audio lx4 5.1

mixing desk
Behringer BCF 2000 control surface

mics
SP B1
and a bunch of others

computer
pc running sonar 6 producers

acoustics
3.5" ultratouch, built myself placed as shown

dunno what else

 

[FALKEN]

the delta 1010's will suck any tone out of any premaps you attempt to use. I would look at a better option. maybe an RME.

 

[pandamonk]

the delta 1010's will suck any tone out of any premaps you attempt to use. I would look at a better option. maybe an RME.

Really? I didn't think it'd affect the sound at all. It's just a/d convertion, and shouldn't change the sound.

 

[gummblefish]

Where will you be getting the Ultratouch? Is there anywhere in Scotland that does it (like DIY stores) or are you ordering off the net? I have been to all my local B&Q's etc and they dont have any of the brands that people talk of on here. I suspect the other brands like Knuaf will be the same or have similar co-efficients to that owens 703 stuff that everyone talks about on here. http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/output/solutions/page_232.html

 

[JuliánFernández]

Really? I didn't think it'd affect the sound at all. It's just a/d convertion, and shouldn't change the sound.

A/D WILL change the sound... that´s a fact. That´s why you have budget convertes and Apoggee converters...

 

[FALKEN]

Really? I didn't think it'd affect the sound at all. It's just a/d convertion, and shouldn't change the sound.

really? Apogee aside, try comparing a 1010 to an RME or even an echo and tell me if you still feel the same.

 

[gcapel]

Really? I didn't think it'd affect the sound at all. It's just a/d convertion, and shouldn't change the sound.

Trust me, I used the 1010 for years. Now I own a RME multiface II. The sound quality is better and the stability is a landslides difference. It's not that much more money. The multiface II also has 8 more channels of I/O via adat lightpipe.

 

[amra]

I've heard sound clip comparisons on here. There wasn't that big of a difference at all. Do a search for "converter comparison 1010" and listen for yourself, then you can decide. It's not near as much difference as some people make it out to be, in the whole scheme of things.

 

[pandamonk]

Where will you be getting the Ultratouch? Is there anywhere in Scotland that does it (like DIY stores) or are you ordering off the net? I have been to all my local B&Q's etc and they dont have any of the brands that people talk of on here. I suspect the other brands like Knuaf will be the same or have similar co-efficients to that owens 703 stuff that everyone talks about on here. http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/output/solutions/page_232.html

I'm buying it from bpape(brian) from these forums. Shipping is killing me though. I could order some if you want it. It's impossible to find ultratouch in the UK, and extremely difficult to even find rigid fiberglass. Yeah, knauf is similar to what is talked about here, but even that is quite difficult to get a hold of.

Lee

 

[pandamonk]

A/D WILL change the sound... that´s a fact. That´s why you have budget convertes and Apoggee converters...

Really, buy how much? As much as a preamp? I really don't see how it can. 'cause in converting, its just taking the sound and breaking it up into a digital signal. It's copying the signal as close as it can within the sample etc. Obviously higher priced gear has higher samples rates etc, and will run smoother, but i wouldn't have thought it really changed the sound a great deal. I mean, our main market is CDs which are 16bit 44.1kHz, and even the delta 1010 far surpasses that. What kind of things in AD convertion change the sound?

I thought that the higher end converters would have better sample rates, more expandability, and better suited for certain things. like the RME offers ADAT, word clock, spdif, etc. And echo the same but with a a pair of pres, also on firewire. And also the input, such as the ESI 1010 inputs at the low end -10dBv, but delta 1010 allows you to switch between -10dBv and 4dBu. Also the freq response is within 0.3dB from 20Hz-22kHz, so it can't change the sound that much.

 

[pandamonk]

Bump......

 

[travelin travis]

Trust me, I used the 1010 for years. Now I own a RME multiface II. The sound quality is better and the stability is a landslides difference. It's not that much more money. The multiface II also has 8 more channels of I/O via adat lightpipe.

what exactly do you mean by "the stability is a landslides better"? what stability issues did you have with the 1010?

 

[pandamonk]

Trust me, I used the 1010 for years. Now I own a RME multiface II. The sound quality is better and the stability is a landslides difference. It's not that much more money. The multiface II also has 8 more channels of I/O via adat lightpipe.

I'd of thought the multiface II would have been more expensive because it has the extra 8 channels via adat, not because it's better sound quality or whatever. And because RME have a better name than m-audio in the music biz.

 

[pandamonk]

Look, I'm not saying that you guys are wrong. I just can't see how it can affect the sound. You obviously think that it does, so could you tell me how?

Thanks

 

[gcapel]

Well the sound quality(rme multi II) was noticeably different to me. It wasn't huge but I heard a difference using the 1010 for 3 years. The 1010 would have issues if you didn't power the breakout box before booting the computer. The rme powers through the single interface cable that plugs in the pci card. It was also unstable once in a while(1010). What I mean by that is, it would just stop seeing the input signals and such. I still have the 1010. Though it is not in a computer. It just sits there.

 

[pandamonk]

Well the sound quality(rme multi II) was noticeably different to me. It wasn't huge but I heard a difference using the 1010 for 3 years. The 1010 would have issues if you didn't power the breakout box before booting the computer. The rme powers through the single interface cable that plugs in the pci card. It was also unstable once in a while(1010). What I mean by that is, it would just stop seeing the input signals and such. I still have the 1010. Though it is not in a computer. It just sits there.

I know and understand that you hear a difference, but i can't help feeling that maybe you were expecting a difference etc, so im not sure whether your experience is enought for me. I wanna know why there's a difference, if there's even a difference. I know that you see a difference, and i accept that, but i dunno, i like to see proof.

But anyway, how much of a difference did you hear? As much as you would between preamps/mics etc? Was the difference actually better, or just different?

Thanks

 

[gcapel]

I know and understand that you hear a difference, but i can't help feeling that maybe you were expecting a difference etc, so im not sure whether your experience is enought for me. I wanna know why there's a difference, if there's even a difference. I know that you see a difference, and i accept that, but i dunno, i like to see proof.

But anyway, how much of a difference did you hear? As much as you would between preamps/mics etc? Was the difference actually better, or just different?

Thanks

The sound was better, clearly. I ran across some similar testamonies around here to sway me to buy it. The stability was enough alone to sell me on it. I would expect the difference would be the acutaul components used.. If i were you I would compare the spec sheets.

The RME control panel is tons cooler too. You also get a headphone out on the front of the unit so you can spare you ouputs from monitoring.

 

[pandamonk]

Can't see a huge difference. Ok the RME has AD: 111.5 dBA over 109dB(A/D), and zero CPU load technology, Analog level @ 0 dBFS: +2 dBV, +13 dBu, +19 dBu over +4dBu/-10dBV operation(which i don't even understand anyway, lol), adat etc, buffer sizes/latencies available whereas the delta 1010 doesn't show theirs, if they have any at all. But really none of this is really hugely better, except of course for the bits i don't understand. So what about the specs makes it better, and by how much? And what in the deltas specs makes it so bad?

 

[FALKEN]

ok. First of all it was already mentioned the components. The actual a/d chip might be the same or different in any of these boxes. But what makes even more of a difference is the rest of the circuit. Everything from all of the component tolerances (resistors, caps, etc) to the physical layout of the circuitboard can have an impact on the sound. That is the how. The what is that the audio is captured in varying amounts of accuracy. Things like jitter come to mind. (when the samples don't fall exactly where they're supposed to). with 44,100 samples per second, that's a lot of opportunities to mess something up. basically to me it is a matter of detail of the sound. As for the comment to hearing uplooaded A/B tests, I have heard a different one on a different board comparing the delta to a mytek and the difference was very noticeable, to me. Not everyone who posted their guesses could pick out the delta, but I think a majority did. I did at least. I hope this helps.

 

[jonnyc]

Can't see a huge difference. Ok the RME has AD: 111.5 dBA over 109dB(A/D), and zero CPU load technology, Analog level @ 0 dBFS: +2 dBV, +13 dBu, +19 dBu over +4dBu/-10dBV operation(which i don't even understand anyway, lol), adat etc, buffer sizes/latencies available whereas the delta 1010 doesn't show theirs, if they have any at all. But really none of this is really hugely better, except of course for the bits i don't understand. So what about the specs makes it better, and by how much? And what in the deltas specs makes it so bad?

Just to put it into some easy to understand terms, I've heard lots and lots of people describe going from prosumer converters to high level conveters as "taking a blanket off my monitors". But 1010's will get you close enough, they won't really hurt your sound, it just won't sound as good as it could. Not to mention most good songs shine through the crappy gear.