From Epiphone to Fender

[pohaku]

In some respects, it's all personal taste, isn't it. There are a lot of reasons to like any particular instrument, sound being only one of them (important of course, but only one factor). Playability, looks, weight, collectibility, etc. might all factor in -- and differently for different people.

I don't generally have any concerns about other people modding their instruments, per se. If the instrument has some value and collectibility based on its unaltered status, it might be economically foolish to mod it (if you can't reverse the mod 100%). And if it was a truly vintage instrument that exhibited rare sound and craftsmanship, it would also be a shame to irrevocably alter it. That said, guitar players always seem to be chasing the holy grail of tone and playability. To get there, some people buy more instruments that sound and play different and some people alter the ones they have --continuously.

I have some instruments that are modestly collectible (less than $8,000 in value). They have their peculiarities and their own voices and I've largely kept them unaltered. I have others that are quality instruments (1983 LP Standard, 2008 CIJ Floral Telecaster) where I've changed out the pickups and had the electronics tweaked so they sound "better" -- at least to me. These mods are reversible, but they do make the instrument sound different than stock. I see nothing wrong with that. An earlier poster is correct that if I sold these modded instruments, I wouldn't cover the cost of the mods, but in these instances, I haven't devalued the basic instrument either.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Thanks for setting us all straight.

Sounds to me like you spend too much time at harmony central. You're buying into sales gimmicks and hype. Slash endorses them. HA. They must sound amazing then.

As far as your comment about the guitar manufacturer's not spending much time designing their pickups. There's no way for you or me or anyone but SOME dealers or repair shops and the manufacturer to really know that.

Guitar manufacturer's regularly contract other companies to build a lot of things for them. Who knows.... Your precious Seymour Duncan could be designing and/or making these pickups that you hate so much.

Replacing pickups isn't an upgrade. It's an often unnecessary modification based on personal preference. Upgrades don't devalue a guitar/car/house. Personalizing does devalue except in extreme cases mostly involving celebrity.

Most of the time all that's needed is some tweaking of the knobs on your amp, adjustment of the mic in a recording situation, or tweaking of eq and/or compression in a recording.

Now it's back in the box for you!

 

[Unsprung]

As for a non-Fender bass, I prefer my Epiphone EB3 SG Bass. I nearly scored a Gibson EB3 SG Bass about 15 years ago, but had to give up the lay-away due to circumstances beyond my control. I'd fallen in love with the tone pallet of the EB3 before I knew that Jack Bruce used one, when he was with Cream. While I don't have any playing experience with the Jack Cassidy bass, I've heard it in action (live), so I'll agree that that's one to consider.

I also have a Fender Standard Precision Bass, as well as a Squier Affinity P-Bass (my first) that sounds and plays just as well as the MIM Fender, so I'll keep it. I'll eventually get around to putting flat wound strings on one of them. As for a Jazz Bass, it's likely that I won't be adding one to my collection. I can't really "put my finger on it," but I've never really found a Jazz bass that trips my trigger. Perhaps it's that I've spent too much time on P-Bass, but oh well. Eventually, I'll get around to upgrading both of my P-Basses with Fender '62 pickups.

Matt

 

[Outlaws]

I didn't suggest "vintage" was the beginning & end. I noted it was a squire also.
What I commented on was the perverse desire to upgrade/modify/customize/butcher an instrument that is bought specifically for it's sound particularly when a cheaper less "of it's type" machine is at hand to butcher I mean, would you buy it because a bass because it had nice woody bits?
If I ever wanted to own a Gibson/Fender/wahtever expensive brand name thingo I'd want it for its inherent qualities not a) the name & b) to butcher.
If I wanted something to experiemnt with I'd buy something that didn't have "A" sound that was sought after by myself or others.

If it played awesome I would buy it for that. Then I would swap out the pickups if I so felt like it. Infact I did that with a 52 RI tele. I loved the guitar when I picked it up out of pure curiosity having never like teles. I went back, bought it, and a few months later swapped out the bridge pickup for a Texas Special. I just wanted a hotter pickup for that position.

 

[ggunn]

In some respects, it's all personal taste, isn't it.

I agree, but I would delete the "in some respects".

 

[donkeystyle]

Now it's back in the box for you!

yeah. I shouldn't have said that.

I'm a guitar player that has come to hate guitar and most other guitar players. I should probably just refrain from posting about anything guitar related.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Good answer

yeah. I shouldn't have said that.

I'm a guitar player that has come to hate guitar and most other guitar players. I should probably just refrain from posting about anything guitar related.

Haha. We all do that, from time to time. I occasionally rant about the younger guys, and assert my masculinity in verbal ways that don't translate all that well...

..take the smiley in my last post as a sign.

So what do you play? I'm a Gibson electric, Fender bass person, myself.

 

[pohaku]

I agree, but I would delete the "in some respects".

I don't view the economics as personal taste, but I suppose if you have enough money you might still consider it personal taste.

 

[rayc]

Outlaws,
You couldn't've loved it too deepply if you swapped p/ups. That's the point I'm getting at, "bought it coz I loved it swapped it coz I didn't quite love it enough." Me I'd have bought it for what it gave me. I think the whole mod thing is like the loudness wars - people buy into it because it so heavily promoted, the parts are pushed hard by sellers and people like to tinker. I don't mind the tinkering - invention comes from such, but it all smacks of unnecessary consumerism to me.
I bought a dimarzio Blue Velvet pickup (after lots of research and advice in an effort to emulate the original as closely as possible) to pop into my Bruno Royal Artist a couple of years ago after the original single coil carked it BUT didn't go through with it - I had the p/up repaired and retained the original sound of the guitar. If I want tweaks I have pedals & such for that but I bought the guitar for its sound 1st off.

 

[donkeystyle]

Haha. We all do that, from time to time. I occasionally rant about the younger guys, and assert my masculinity in verbal ways that don't translate all that well...

..take the smiley in my last post as a sign.

So what do you play? I'm a Gibson electric, Fender bass person, myself.

I have a couple gibson electrics. I just sold a fender electric, but not because I thought it was bad. It was just my least favorite guitar and since I don't play much guitar anymore none of them get much use so it sat unused and I figured the money would be more useful.

I don't own a bass, but will probably end up with an epi thunderbird eventually.

I don't really consider myself a gibson, or fender, or anything fan. After you get out of the complete bottom of the line guitars, they're all useable for something.

although I hate the look of strats.

 

[Outlaws]

Outlaws,
You couldn't've loved it too deepply if you swapped p/ups. That's the point I'm getting at, "bought it coz I loved it swapped it coz I didn't quite love it enough." Me I'd have bought it for what it gave me. I think the whole mod thing is like the loudness wars - people buy into it because it so heavily promoted, the parts are pushed hard by sellers and people like to tinker. I don't mind the tinkering - invention comes from such, but it all smacks of unnecessary consumerism to me.
I bought a dimarzio Blue Velvet pickup (after lots of research and advice in an effort to emulate the original as closely as possible) to pop into my Bruno Royal Artist a couple of years ago after the original single coil carked it BUT didn't go through with it - I had the p/up repaired and retained the original sound of the guitar. If I want tweaks I have pedals & such for that but I bought the guitar for its sound 1st off.

So you had a bad experience. Welcome to the world of finding your sound.

How is it hard to understand that the guitar played great. Hell, I had no complaints with the neck pickup. It just didn't have enough output when I flipped the toggle.

Do you use distortion pedals or overdrive your amps? compression is tainting that pristine signal you you love so much from your guitar.

 

[rayc]

Nah, you missed it again! I didn't have a bad experience I had a good one. I repaired the original pickup & thereby saved the original sound.
I like the sound of my guitars and basses. The ones I tried and didn't like I didn't buy.
I don't like distortion pedals generally - the only one I use & then only occasionally is a Big Fluff.
I occassionally use an Ibanez Renometre when I want a little sound sculpting to make something fit the mix better.
The only compression I use on my signal is the one I get from the tubes in my amp or from the same in a pre.
Not enough output when you flipped the toggle? Turn it up perhaps?
Tinker all you like bud, if the van gogh print doesn't look right under that hall light why not change the bulb rather than painting over the bits that don't look right.

 

[lpdeluxe]

I have a couple gibson electrics. I just sold a fender electric, but not because I thought it was bad. It was just my least favorite guitar and since I don't play much guitar anymore none of them get much use so it sat unused and I figured the money would be more useful.

I don't own a bass, but will probably end up with an epi thunderbird eventually.

I don't really consider myself a gibson, or fender, or anything fan. After you get out of the complete bottom of the line guitars, they're all useable for something.

although I hate the look of strats.

I like Gibsons by default: every other brand I've tried has had features I didn't like (the 25-1/2" scale on my Strat, the peculiar tone controls and nonadjustable bridge on my '63 Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gent, the lack of versatility of my '67 Ric 366/12 and on and on). I ended up with a '70 Les Paul Deluxe and a recently acquired '00 ES-335. These two allow me to play whatever material I like, and it sounds good, and I'm not wrestling with problems. Gibson's designs from the McCarty years are so thoroughly thought out in comparison to others' (with the exception of Fender, who pursued directions I can't follow -- but all three of my basses are Fender Precisions) that they are easy for me to play.

Of course, if they didn't sound as good as they do, I'd look for something else.

I used to follow the "they're all usable for something" philosophy but then I found myself with 16 guitars, pedal steels, Dobros and basses, so I started thinning the herd, just keeping the quality ones. Now I'm down to nine: the three Ps, the two Gibsons, a couple of flat tops, and a Dobro and an old Regal reso from the '30s. Maybe that's still too many....

 

[pohaku]

Maybe that's still too many....

Heresy!!