From Epiphone to Fender

3

357mag

New member
I'm not a bass player but rather a guitarist. But I play the bass lines for my originals into my computer so that's why I have a bass. Awhile ago I picked up an Epiphone Thunderbird. Great looking bass. Extremely beautiful finish. Looks really cool.

Too bad the sound sucks. Pickups sound grey with no color, flat and lifeless. I borrowed a buddy's vintage modified Fender Squier with Duncan Designed pickups in there. I recorded a bass line into my song and did a comparison test. His bass sounded much better. More life and punch.

I was going to buy it from him but I came across a used American made Fender Jazz Bass in a local store. Nice 3 tone sunburst with Rosewood fingerboard and vintage tint neck and pickguard.

I fell in love with it right away so that will soon be mine. I'm gonna put Duncans in it and it should give me a pretty damn good sound.

You'll never go wrong with a Fender bass. This will be the second one I have owned. If anyone is contemplating buying the Thunderbird I would advise to pass on it.
 
You buy the vintage bass & swap the pickups? So why not just get new pick ups for the Epi? Almost everyone says buy a good epi, swap the PUps & tuners & maybe the selector switch and bangoh!
To my limited brain space it's as if you're saying "Oh, look I have a Lambourgini but the motor's not good enough so I'm going to buy a more expensive Porche and drop in a hotted up boutique engine!"
If I bought a jazz bass it'd be because I liked the jazz bass as is. You can Frankenstein almost any reasonable axe so why stuff up a good one?
You can tell from my car analogy that I know nothing about cars and relative costs but...I don't know.
I wish you every happiness with the Fender Jazz - I'm envious - but of the Fender Jazz not the jazzed up Fender.
 
rayc said:
..."Oh, look I have a Lambourgini but the motor's not good enough...
You can tell from my car analogy that I know nothing about cars...
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The italians will tell you that Lambos are crap- they can not figure out Yank's facination with them. So maybe you know more than you think...

I agree with you about the bass, Ray. Michael Wright (yes, of Vintage Guitar fame) talked me out of butchering a Westone and my acient Telestar- I think the OP has not taken that lesson to heart, yet. (Frankly, I suspect the OP is a kid with more money than sense, but that's just a hunch...) And a "vintage" Squire is rather oxymoronic, eh? Best I can tell, Squires were not made before the mid 80's. Just 'cause it's older than you, does not make it vintage- junk is junk, old junk is... old junk.

So, OP'er, if you are still listening to me, leave that Fender bass RIGHT WERE IT IS, to be bought and played by someone who has some appreciation of it as an instrument. Or, what the hell- go ahead and buy it, f**k it up and cause it's value to nose-dive. Then, when you have decided that music is "not what you are into" at the ripe old age of 22, sell it to finance your latest frat-boy bender.
 
if you want a tone monster epi then its the casady....i have fenders more than twice the price but what can i say ..the casady delivers.

i might add that the stock pickup is amazing ...but as with all epis it will probably need a damn good setup.
 
stevieb said:
And a "vintage" Squire is rather oxymoronic, eh? Best I can tell, Squires were not made before the mid 80's. Just 'cause it's older than you, does not make it vintage- junk is junk, old junk is... old junk.
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The Vintage Modified Squier line is a series. I don't think the OP means a "vintage Squier," I think he means a VM Squier Jazz Bass. Look them up. They're natural-finished, maple neck/black block inlay with Duncan-designed pickups stock.

I think the OP really wants to ask if he should buy the Squier that he really likes for $279 or if he should spend the bucks for a MIA Fender and swap the pickups to Duncans.

http://squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0326702521
 
I recently borrowed the epi thunderbird from a friend for a session I was recording for another friend.

That bass sounds great. I can't imagine any type of popular music it wouldn't work for.

My other buddy that has played bass for a really long time thinks that Alembic is the only way to go and even he admits that the epi thunderbird for some reason sounds really good.

but to each his own I guess. When I have the money maybe I'll buy yours off of you.
 
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In a review I read about the Epi Thunderbird it stated the pickups were 'soapbar pickups'-it might be that the single coils are quite a bit lower output that you are used to. It may also have weaker magnets in the pickups too.
I have an Ibanez Jazz bass (from their lawsuit era when Fender & Gibson sued for these copies) with their stock pickups and it works well with any playing style I need. I think I bought in 1975 and still have never had a problem.
 
I use a MIM Standard Jazz Bass for recording. It does the job and sounds very much like an MIA Jazz Bass. Of course, I tweak the tracks like crazy before doing the final mix. ;)
 
Dimarzio and Duncan do not make replacement pickups for a Thunderbird. One of the main reasons to go with a Fender. Both companies make replacement pickups for Fenders. The stock pickups in that Thunderbird suck.

It's been my experience that most if not all guitars can greatly benefit with a pickup change. The pickups that these companies put in their guitars are not all that good. Certainly not as good as specialty companies that specialize in doing one thing: making replacement pickups.

Both Dimarzio's and Duncans sound absolutely great.
 
rayc said:
You buy the vintage bass & swap the pickups? So why not just get new pick ups for the Epi? Almost everyone says buy a good epi, swap the PUps & tuners & maybe the selector switch and bangoh!
To my limited brain space it's as if you're saying "Oh, look I have a Lambourgini but the motor's not good enough so I'm going to buy a more expensive Porche and drop in a hotted up boutique engine!"
If I bought a jazz bass it'd be because I liked the jazz bass as is. You can Frankenstein almost any reasonable axe so why stuff up a good one?
You can tell from my car analogy that I know nothing about cars and relative costs but...I don't know.
I wish you every happiness with the Fender Jazz - I'm envious - but of the Fender Jazz not the jazzed up Fender.
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Thunderbirds are known for terrible weight distribution and crappy wood use. That's why.

But I agree, swapping pups in an American Fender is rather dumb.If you want to do a pickup swap, do it to a Mex Made one. The pickups are virtually the only thing that drives the price up and makes it an "American" bass.
 
The bass is not vintage. It was made in around 2003 or so. It has a vintage pickguard and vintage amber tint neck that's all.
 
OK.. I can't sit here and listen to all this dribble and not open my trap. What are pick ups made from? Plastic bobbins with a pre-determined number of coils of wire. Screw that to a backing plate with a bar magnet and voila! Why does everyone think that if you change stock p-ups to a "NAME" brand that all will be golden? The wood type, closeness of grain, density,weight and build procedures will far out-weigh any tonal contributions that a p-up will make. You can not take a shit guitar made with inferior components and magcally transform it into something wonderful with new p-ups.
YES some p-ups are crap. Weak, with dull or brittle tone. But the notion that all stock p-ups should be swapped for ones with a brand name and some clever marketing is just silly. I see post after post of ....."This guitar is good, all you have to do is swap the p-ups!" I mean really, A good p-up manufacturer can build it for about $6.00 cost. And that's with buying all the parts from China. (Yes, they don't make any of the parts that go into their p-ups.) Now, what do you think it costs for good, quality wood? Try about $100-$150.00 for a nice matched flame top. Almost double that for quilt or burl. That's just the top, not the body or neck. And there are a lot of types/grades of wood. Just because the ad says " mahogony body and maple top" doesn't mean it will sound good.
There is no magic pixie dust that is sprinkled on expensive p-ups. Yes , they all do sound a bit different from each other, (no. of turns,guage of wire ,type of magnet, brass backing plate or steel. But it is not because one set came in the guitar and another set is $69.00 each at Guitar Center. By the way, they probably have those pricey Monster cables on sale. Get those while your at it and you'll REALLY sound good!
 
I've used name brand pickups like Duncans and Dimarzios. I know how good they sound. I've heard stock pickups that come in Fenders and Gibsons. They don't compare. Companies that make replacement pickups do just one thing. Make pickups. They know what they're doing man.

A huge majority of an electric guitar's sound comes from the pickups. What do you think makes an electric guitar electric anyway? The wood?
 
I didn't suggest "vintage" was the beginning & end. I noted it was a squire also.
What I commented on was the perverse desire to upgrade/modify/customize/butcher an instrument that is bought specifically for it's sound particularly when a cheaper less "of it's type" machine is at hand to butcher I mean, would you buy it because a bass because it had nice woody bits?
If I ever wanted to own a Gibson/Fender/wahtever expensive brand name thingo I'd want it for its inherent qualities not a) the name & b) to butcher.
If I wanted something to experiemnt with I'd buy something that didn't have "A" sound that was sought after by myself or others.
 
stevieb said:
Best I can tell, Squires were not made before the mid 80's. Just 'cause it's older than you, does not make it vintage- junk is junk, old junk is... old junk.

.
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acctually i bought my squire pbass in the early 80s!!!!.....and i regret selling it ...it was one of the best basses i have had ...and it looked great and was so damn light on the shoulder....i bet that thing whoever has it is a true vintage bit of kit....i want it back!!!!:D
 
Putting Duncans in a guitar is hardly butchering it. It's called an upgrade. I got an American made Les Paul about a year ago. It came with these Burstbucker Pros. Those damn pickups sounded like Strat vertical humbuckers. I replaced them with Duncan Alnico Pro II's. Same kind Slash uses. Improved the sound 300 percent. These companies that make guitars spend most of their time on the guitar building. They don't spend lots of time on their pickups.
 
One of the great things about Squiers is that you can modify them without messing with the resale value. On the other hand, you'll not recoup the money you put into one. A friend owns a Squier Jazz that he and I gigged with for many years without problems.

As to "vintage:" that's become nothing more than an eBay red alert. It's the axe, not the age, and how you interact with it that matters. I'll throw in my own definitions:
"Vintage" -- second hand
"*Vintage*" -- second hand and abused
"**Vintage**" -- second hand and butchered.
"***Vintage***" -- clumsy counterfeit

Finally, some people get great sounds out of TBirds, others don't. The ergonomics put me off enough that I've not tried them. I'm a Fender Precision player ('51 RI, Classic '50s, fretless) and they suit me fine. Others will disagree...but I can easily swap pickups (each of mine has a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound) and, if you're not satisfied with any other part, such as the bridge, replacements and upgrades are readily available.
 
357mag said:
Putting Duncans in a guitar is hardly butchering it. It's called an upgrade. I got an American made Les Paul about a year ago. It came with these Burstbucker Pros. Those damn pickups sounded like Strat vertical humbuckers. I replaced them with Duncan Alnico Pro II's. Same kind Slash uses. Improved the sound 300 percent. These companies that make guitars spend most of their time on the guitar building. They don't spend lots of time on their pickups.
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Sounds to me like you spend too much time at harmony central. You're buying into sales gimmicks and hype. Slash endorses them. HA. They must sound amazing then.

As far as your comment about the guitar manufacturer's not spending much time designing their pickups. There's no way for you or me or anyone but SOME dealers or repair shops and the manufacturer to really know that.

Guitar manufacturer's regularly contract other companies to build a lot of things for them. Who knows.... Your precious Seymour Duncan could be designing and/or making these pickups that you hate so much.

Replacing pickups isn't an upgrade. It's an often unnecessary modification based on personal preference. Upgrades don't devalue a guitar/car/house. Personalizing does devalue except in extreme cases mostly involving celebrity.

Most of the time all that's needed is some tweaking of the knobs on your amp, adjustment of the mic in a recording situation, or tweaking of eq and/or compression in a recording.
 
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