Friendly Little Cut-Throat COMPETITION - If You've Got The Stones For It

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chrisharris

chrisharris

King of Bling
Naw, not really.

If this is a BBS etiquette problem, just flame me and I'll go away quietly whimpering, but some of you guys have talent, and I'd like to learn from you.

YES, I'VE READ BRUCE'S ARTICLE, lol.

I recently spent some money on an old EMT mastering compressor/limiter, and I'm totally into abusing its powers right now, but I'm losing my mind at the same time. The main goal is to help take the "digital edge" off of my crappy recordings, but my overall lack of "mastering" talent is bringing the whole endeavor down.

I've posted 2 versions of the same tune; one is a totally "raw" mix, (normalized only)...What I mean by this is that no post mixdown mangling has been done to it. The other has been EQ'd a tad and run through the new toy (mastering compressor/limiter).

You Bored?

If a couple of you guys want to take a shot at a quick mastering job to make it sound less "asslike," and then could relate what you did, I think it'd be HUGELY educational.

Obviously, anybody participating would be dealing with an mp3 file (albeit a decent bitrate), so there are certainly sonic limitations. This is cool for a couple of reasons. First - to dispel any grumbling about me just wanting a free mastering job, lol. Secondly, if the differences are too subtle to translate to a high quality VBR file, then that's important for people to know.

WEIRD PART - Most people have been telling me lately that my plain mixes sound better than my finished work. I'd like to know why. They do seem less harsh.

www.nowhereradio.com/honestmango/singles
1. "Juliet"
2. "Juliet (Flat)"

This'll probably drop off the front page in nothing flat, and that's cool too. I know people are busy. PLUS, YOU'RE ALL TOO SCARED, RIGHT? RIGHT?

Kidding.

I'm not looking for free professional anything; just looking for talent.

Thanks, if you bother. :D
 
aiight, with caveats...

this is my five minute reply, as I'm in the middle of moving, but just couldn't pass it up ;)

1.I'm not happy about the compression... I just didn't tweak it that much, and you can hear an ugly snap on it occasionly...

2. at 3 minutes 58 seconds... there's something that sounds like interference from a tv... maybe a computer monitor... couldn't get rid of it... more tweaking I just don't have time for right now...

3. Your mastered version is the only thing on your site that I can't listen to... (no links) so I couldn't compare this in a competitive sense... but it definitely has more body and more warmth...

but it is a little half as*ed :)

http://www.radiumreactor.com/music/try1.htm

have fun tearing it down
 
Hey man...very cool of you to play.

(and thanks for the tip on the links not being enabled; they are now).

I wanna' reserve any further comment to see if I get any more bites, but I wanted to say "thanks" before you drop out of sight behind the wheel of a U-Haul.

Again, "thanks." I'm gonna' have questions for you, lol.
 
Yo' chris, have you considered e-mailing or P.M.-ing Ed "sonus-my-man" Rei !?
He produces most excellent mastering and or straight-up,layman understandable advice,tips and assistance on employing & achieving decent mastering results using whatever gear U have.
Def'ly won't hurt to give sonusman a holla'!
 
MISTERQCUE said:
Yo' chris, have you considered e-mailing or P.M.-ing Ed "sonus-my-man" Rei !?
He produces most excellent mastering and or straight-up,layman understandable advice,tips and assistance on employing & achieving decent mastering results using whatever gear U have.
Def'ly won't hurt to give sonusman a holla'!
Click to expand...
Ed rules, no doubt...and I totally appreciate the tip. I'm hoping he'll see this, and I actually thought about PM'ing a couple of people around here for mastering help, but then I thought maybe that would be kind of crappy of me. Sonusman has contributed a ton to this board, and I don't really feel right about asking for more, if that makes sense. Same for Blue Bear, and 6 other guys I had on a short list, lol.

I've actually got a guy lined up that I'm going to pay to master a collection of 12 tunes, this one included - and he'll polish the turds pretty nicely, lol. But it's just gonna' be one guy's input/ears/taste and experience. I just think it'd be cool to get some different perspectives and sounds out of people...voluntarily.

If somebody (anybody) WANTS to take a stab at this, then they can; if they'd rather pass, they can. (if they're a girly guy who just likes to shoot his mouth off with no practical skillz!!!! - you hear THAT, pipelineaudio??? :D) I just didn't wanna' interrupt somebody's life and ask him work on this when it's basically only going to be a learning exercise for yours truly.

Anyway...how many days til til the Jamfest? :D :D :D

Thanks again,
Chris

(p.s. - Hey Q; wanna' master it?) :D
 
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**Bumping A Bad Idea...Again**

Wow...this thread has really taken off. Kinda' hard for me to keep up, but I'm trying. :D

Just wanted to add that there are not one, BUT TWO, yes 2 "mastering" attempts on my page now. I tried to incorporate some of the texture proposed by "jazzrich9" in the second one.

Okay, I won't bump this again, lol...just fishing for knowledge.
 
Chris,

I think the lack of responses says that you are already among the best on this Board and that there is little that anyone can offer.

btw, i just listened to your NPR interview. Pretty cool, man.

Congrats. a little late.

kt
 
...

my take...
well...the mastered ones sure 'seems' a tad louder.!!!

your stuff has a harshness to it, that is hard for me to describe. I would guess "very compressed" would be the word, and it lacks the realism, most noticeably on the vocals. They don't sound like "REAL" vocals, but more so, like someone singing thru a PA system with the happy curve EQ. It comes across a very midrangy to me, and like someone might say; "he's using the wrong mic."

The cymbals are very sizzly and the instruments also have an "artificial" sound to them.

The music is fine and performed well... Mind you, I'm harping on the recording sonics now.

I don't know what you do when you record, but I'd suggest leaving EQ alone, compressors back in their cages, and work on getting a good sound by getting it to sound good going into the mic in the first place and don't try to fix it after it is recorded. Sure... easy for some, you might say. But I think that is the "real" trick. I think if you ask your list of 6, they'll admit to minimal adjustments and their stuff is liked because of their tracking abilities. You might take a CLOSE look at your monitor setup too, and getting your ear canals checked also for excessive wax buildup! ...that was kinda a joke, but if you're hearing stuff on crappy speakers... like some poo-poo Alesis monitor ones or some tripe like that, you'll be fighting an uphill battle.
 
KevinTran said:
Chris,

I think the lack of responses says that you are already among the best on this Board and that there is little that anyone can offer.
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Now if THAT doesn't stir up the pot, lol, nothing will. (thanks, btw).

mixmkr - See, you hit on a couple of things; first - I've posted 2 tunes in the clinic that were not processed beyond normalization. By and large, the consensus was that those 2 sounded better than any of the other crap I post. hrm...I was hoping I could maybe HEAR what somebody else would do to one of those flat mixes, to see exactly where I'm going astray, lol.

Yeah, the mastered copies are louder, but they're also EQ'd completely differently...(from the original, and from each other). I'm not arguing with you at all, but the truth is that yeah, my midrange hearing is pretty fucked up, and I have almost no high range left in my right ear... my monitors are decent, but I don't think it makes a helluva lotta' difference if that information can't get to my brain in tact. So I was actually kind of hoping (praying, whatever) that maybe my mixes weren't initially so bad, but I was just beating the hell out of them with EQ. One guy took at shot at the original mix so far, and from what I can tell, he didn't really change the EQ much, if at all. I do know what you're saying about getting the sound on tape to begin with, but assuming I'm not, lol...how would YOU treat that first file, if you had to...(you don't, lol...but if you did)..sounds to me like you'd cut the mids, since re-tracking wouldn't be an option in this little exercise. :D - Can you make it sound decent to you? God knows I can't...BAHAHAhahaha.

I'm just rambling. I hit a wall somewhere back there that I can't seem to get through. It's not like I want somebody to do my job for me, seriously...I'd just really like to hear what other people think sounds good to them.

You were on the list, btw...but since we're sworn enemies and stuff, lol.

Sorry about that, btw. I can be a dick, no doubt.

Thanks, Mix
Chris
 
chrisharris said:

mixmkr - See, you hit on a couple of things; first - I've posted 2 tunes in the clinic that were not processed beyond normalization. By and large, the consensus was that those 2 sounded better than any of the other crap I post. hrm...I was hoping I could maybe HEAR what somebody else would do to one of those flat mixes, to see exactly where I'm going astray, lol.

Yeah, the mastered copies are louder, but they're also EQ'd completely differently...(from the original, and from each other). >>>>>>>>>>etc.
Click to expand...

I might go out on a limb and suggest that you just need to track better then. It seems that you think you can improve on your tracked sounds by playing with them(which essentially you should be able to do...but remember.."polishing a turd"), and especially once they've been assimilated to a stereo mix. I maybe wrong, but I would consider EQing an entire mix, and such things like getting into the frays of multiband compression in the hands of someone learning, is going to lead you down the path of doom. It sounds like your EMT will be user friendly though...!

Seriously...get that gtr track to sound killer before the mix(and especially before it hits tape). Make it scream on its own. Make it 'melt' into the mix without all this subtractive EQ bullshit. When you listen to your vocals...do they sound like you are in the room with the singer?..in other words, do they sound live?. ... or do they sound like they are being mic'd with a SM58 and played back on Bose 801's.

Additionally..your hearing deficiancies may unfortunately be a large part of your problem. As unreversable a situation that that is, that has to come into play, one might think. ...or would take lots-o-ear-training to overcome and learn how to compensate...which is the road you appear to be on.

I would think you'd also be more interested in how someone else might MIX your stuff VS mastering or "final EQing"..or whatever the vogue term is around here now.

Actually, if I could ever catch up around here with my personal bizness at the ranch, I'd love to take your RAW tracks and have a swing at it. I'd probably strike out, but who knows? You might offer that up.

Personally, I like to see a mix contest, and your tracks might just be the perfect ones to offer.... kinda in vein to the chessfuck/blueballs mastering contest awhile back. Make it happen...eh?;)
 
Well I'm not exactly the pro you were hoping for input from:) but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, as someone who knows your stuff pretty well.

I have an earlier version of Juliet on my hard drive that I downloaded awhile ago which is vastly superior to either of the versions currently on your page. Why? The singing's not quite as "polished" (I think you re-tracked some things here and there), the instrumentation isn't as eloborate, etc. BUT... (and here's the important thing) it isn't compressed to high heaven.

I mean, Chris, I say this because think this is one of the best songs I've heard on the clinic, song-wise. One of the best songs I've heard in awhile, period. And I would absolutely have a blast playing with your original, uncompressed tracks - what freakin' joy that would be to mix such a great song! But I'd add my voice to the chorus at the clinic that seems to agree: the less processing you do, the better it seems to sound.

I'd guess that there isn't much wrong with your tracking, I *know* there's nothing wrong with your performance or writing. I think maybe (like me) you just get a little too far "into" the song when you're mixing - to the point where you lose sight of it a little. I think we've finally staged an intervention with the autotune... now if we could wean you from that compressor...:)

Seriously, I have no business even saying anything, but I'd sure like to hear a mix of this tune that breathes a little.

for what it's worth,
Chris
 
i feel like a dork saying this to someone of your calibare, but mastering can't fix what tracking and mixing have messed up...(i'll stand back now as the flames engulf me)...no, i think you are one of the better engineers here, but we all know you're only as good as your weakest link.
 
mixmkr said:
When you listen to your vocals...do they sound like you are in the room with the singer?..in other words, do they sound live?. ... or do they sound like they are being mic'd with a SM58 and played back on Bose 801's.
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Man, maybe more than anything anybody's ever told me on here, THAT question makes sense. It was a MASSIVE pain in the ass enveloping my vocal tracks for the "dry" challenge, but they sound about 10X better to me today than the processed ones.

mixmkr said:
Personally, I like to see a mix contest, and your tracks might just be the perfect ones to offer.... kinda in vein to the chessfuck/blueballs mastering contest awhile back. Make it happen...eh?
Click to expand...
I wonder if I posted the dry tracks as 320kbps mp3's on a seperate page...hrmmm...

Seriously, thanks for chiming in again. You're making sense.


Originally posted by groucho
I have an earlier version of Juliet on my hard drive that I downloaded awhile ago which is vastly superior to either of the versions currently on your page. Why? The singing's not quite as "polished" (I think you re-tracked some things here and there), the instrumentation isn't as eloborate, etc. BUT... (and here's the important thing) it isn't compressed to high heaven.
I mean, Chris, I say this because think this is one of the best songs I've heard on the clinic, song-wise. One of the best songs I've heard in awhile, period. And I would absolutely have a blast playing with your original, uncompressed tracks -
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LOL - I was afraid of that. Seems the more I fuck with a song, the worse it gets. I think I'm gonna' ditch the vocals and guitars and just start over; no compression...no de-essing, no nuffin...I'll do that today, as a matter of fact, and then I'll PM you and tell you that you HAVE to mix the tracks for me, lmao. Very sincere thanks, btw...there's this forest out there, but all these damned trees keep getting in the way. I think my tracks ARE pretty decent until I start jacking with them, so we'll see, eh? You have skills, and I think it'd be a blast to see what other people like you could do with them.

Originally posted by willovercome
i feel like a dork saying this to someone of your calibare, but mastering can't fix what tracking and mixing have messed up...(i'll stand back now as the flames engulf me).
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Somebody of my calibre..lol. Dude, I'm a hack; but I'm working on it. I think my tracking's okay (we'll see, I guess), but I just tweak and screw with stuff until it hardly sounds human anymore...I'm gonna' work on that. Why in the world would you get flamed for that? Now, posting this thread, THAT'S something somebody should get flamed for.

OKAY, I'm gonna' try a new approach on the guitars and vocals. I'm not redoing the drums and/or bass, b/c they're drums and bass, lol. Thanks to everyone who has (or might) chime in.

*sigh*
-The Overkill King
 
Hey Chris,
I wish I had more time to play with this - I took about an hour and it's kinda late. It's a start...

 
Malcolm - Yeah, I'm a sibilant guy, but I think I may actually make it worse by de-essing.

caryindy - Nice job with some crappy source material. I've only listened to it on monitors, but it seems cleaner to me than the one posted by "Jazzrich," mainly b/c of the softer compression. Mind telling me exactly what you did?

jazzrich - hope the move went well, brother! You definitely warmed it up, but I think it's pumping a little. (I know, you said you weren't happy with the compression :D). Could you tell me exactly what you did?

mixmkr - If you get some time, read this http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90016

ANYBODY ELSE WHO IS STILL READING THIS - Wanna mix it? I resang it, replayed it (cept for bass and drums) and posted the dry tracks (cept for bass and drums, which are overly compressed and shitty) on NWR (9 tracks). If you're interested in showing this BBS what a BadAss you are, please read this:

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90016

Thanks for not flaming me (yet).
Chris
 
I'm gonna chime in with mixmkr. Maybe you're overworking what you've recorded. Every time I've got a better sound on my stuff it's either been because I've bought better gear, or because I've worked at getting better tracks to disk. The less I tinker with the mix, the better it sounds (not that my stuff sounds good, lol, but trust me when I say that the more I alter the sound in the mix, the worse it sounds). And when I *do* change something, a nice light touch on the controls. I just don't have the experience to get away with fancy stuff.

I thought Texroadkill's comment in the CE forum about his friend with the new SAWZALL was bang on. LOL
 
chrisharris said:

caryindy - Nice job with some crappy source material. I've only listened to it on monitors, but it seems cleaner to me than the one posted by "Jazzrich," mainly b/c of the softer compression. Mind telling me exactly what you did?
Click to expand...

I don't want to spoil any of the fun - plus, the mix thread is hot! Check your private massages. :-)
 
chrisharris said:
Malcolm - Yeah, I'm a sibilant guy, but I think I may actually make it worse by de-essing.



Tilt ya Mic man. :-)

Malcolm
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