Fretboard radius on fender guitars

jimistone

jimistone

long standing member
On one hand I like the feel of playing lead guitar on a fingerboard that has a flatter radius than the vintage 7.25...but on the other hand I love the feel of an old vintage strat or Tele. Those old guitars feel so good when you pick one up and put your hand around the neck. Even though the flatter radius is fantastic when doing big bends and allows for lower action...it has a different feel. I guess the word I'm looking for is "mojo"

What are y'alls thoughts on this topic?
 
jimistone said:
On one hand I like the feel of playing lead guitar on a fingerboard that has a flatter radius than the vintage 7.25...but on the other hand I love the feel of an old vintage strat or Tele. Those old guitars feel so good when you pick one up and put your hand around the neck. Even though the flatter radius is fantastic when doing big bends and allows for lower action...it has a different feel. I guess the word I'm looking for is "mojo"

What are y'alls thoughts on this topic?
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man ........ yeah the old ones feel good but for a playing ax I personally find them useless.
A LOT of what I do involves bending and that fretting out thing you get with the tighter radius ..... I just can't stand that.
Even when I'm mostly chording I'm liable to throw out a pedal steel type thing which, again, requires a biggish bend and then it just buzzes out. I can't stand that even if it only happens a few times a night.


So for me the tight radius is a no-go.
And I tend to set my action pretty high so I'm don't like a low action for the same reason ...... I need to get a good grip on the strings for control while I'm bending so I'm not really looking for a low action ..... for me it's entirely the bending issue.
 
Ok, here's a newb question.... What is the radius of the fretboard? Is it the wood that curves or do the frets themselves produce the curve? If it's the fretbard, do the frets follow the curve of the fretboard or do they remain flat?

well, that was more than one question.
 
Chili said:
Ok, here's a newb question.... What is the radius of the fretboard? Is it the wood that curves or do the frets themselves produce the curve? If it's the fretbard, do the frets follow the curve of the fretboard or do they remain flat?
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Good question. The radius refers to the arc that the top of the fingerboard is surfaced to. Some older Fenders had a very small radius which is prone to fretting out when you bend. Most modern guitars have a much larger radius, and don't have this issue.

The frets follow the curve, and it's necessary to bend them prior to installing them.
I like a 12" r on an acoustic, and 14 on an electric.
 
Cool, that's kind of what I thought and wasn't ashamed to ask.. So, when you make a neck, how do you create the radius? You're not carving the wood, are you?? That would completely destroy any plans I ever had of making a neck.

Thanks for the info!! :)

(sorry for the small hijack)
 
Chili said:
Cool, that's kind of what I thought and wasn't ashamed to ask.. So, when you make a neck, how do you create the radius? You're not carving the wood, are you?? That would completely destroy any plans I ever had of making a neck.

Thanks for the info!! :)

(sorry for the small hijack)
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it's only the fretboard involved in the radius. And you can buy fretboards with whatever radius you want or you can buy flat ones and radius them yourself.
I imagine you'd simply sand them to match a radius gauge of some kind.
 
Chili said:
Cool, that's kind of what I thought and wasn't ashamed to ask.. So, when you make a neck, how do you create the radius? You're not carving the wood, are you?? That would completely destroy any plans I ever had of making a neck.

Thanks for the info!! :)
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I buy fretboards that are slotted and radiused. I've got the tools to do it, but there's no way I can match the accuracy of a CNC machine, and buying them slotted is only a couple bucks more than the material would cost anyway.

Lt. Bob said:
it's only the fretboard involved in the radius. And you can buy fretboards with whatever radius you want or you can buy flat ones and radius them yourself.
I imagine you'd simply sand them to match a radius gauge of some kind.
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Yes, That and you can get sanding blocks that are machined to the proper radius.
 
The radius can be done by hand with a sanding block in next to no time. Admittedly It's the job I hate the most as it produces a LOT of nasty ebony or rosewood dust that is both not good for the lungs and makes your bench and hands filthy but it's the only way I can be sure that the radius and board are completely perfect. I also like to select the timber I use for each board as many of the preslotted ones are often inferior. Even on the odd times I have used a radius board I have ended up having to finish by hand to get a true clean finish with the slot depth I want.

The sanding blocks can be bought or made pretty simply and I have them in many radii both bought and made.

Playing wise, It depends on what I am doing. Electric, fender style 9" or 12". Rosewood bound boards 14". Acoustic/Archtop something of a larger radius.
 
I have never had a problem with "fretting out" myself. I would think that would be a symptom of a poor setup or a neck in need of fret work. The action on my '66 is as plenty low enough for me and I play blues with Albert King/SRV type bends and don't fret out...but I do tend to snap some E, B, and G strings from time to time. That being said the bending is easier on a flatter radius board. Also a lower action is possible.

I guess it's what you're used to. I've been listening to a lot of Roy Buchannon, Brent Mason, and Danny Gatton recordings lately and I'm pretty much being schooled (reminded) of what can be accomplished on a 7.25 radius fretboard.
I dunno, I went to guitar center and played some guitars with flatter fret board radius to nail down what radius I want for my metal flake telecaster build and the flatter radiuses, though very slinky, just felt chessy when compared to my old late 60's strat with its "outdated" 7.25 radius.

The damn thing just has mojo!
Maybe that's why vintage fenders are so desirable. The 7.25 radius is part of the mojo I'm starting to realize
 
jimistone said:
I have never had a problem with "fretting out" myself. I would think that would be a symptom of a poor setup or a neck in need of fret work. The action on my '66 is as plenty low enough for me and I play blues with Albert King/SRV type bends and don't fret out...but I do tend to snap some E, B, and G strings from time to time. That being said the bending is easier on a flatter radius board. Also a lower action is possible.
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nah .... you just must not bend as far as I do. I certainly know how to set up my guitars. When you're up high on a neck and make a bend of say a full step or more a tight radius WILL fret out.
I commonly bend strings a fell step .... step and a half ..... two steps. Unless your action is WAY high a tight radius will fret out. For me a 9 radius or tighter is unusable.

But that should make no difference in what you decide .... you asked our opinions and I told you mine .... but you are the only one that knows what suits you.
 
I definitely have had problems fretting out on rounder radii. And part of that "mojo" and how you just like how they "feel" is just that's what you're accustomed to - I started on a 9" Fender and while I still like it, I'm definitely way more comfortable on a flatter radius neck, and it plays MUCH better. For me, that's enough.

Also, just because Danny Gatton and Roy Buchannon played on older Teles doesn't mean that they had rounder boards - remember that Stevie Ray was also known for a vintage Fender, yet he had massive fretwire on the thing. Flattening a fretboard during a refret isn't so hard to do.
 
Lt. Bob said:
nah .... you just must not bend as far as I do. I certainly know how to set up my guitars. When you're up high on a neck and make a bend of say a full step or more a tight radius WILL fret out.
I commonly bend strings a fell step .... step and a half ..... two steps. Unless your action is WAY high a tight radius will fret out. For me a 9 radius or tighter is unusable.

But that should make no difference in what you decide .... you asked our opinions and I told you mine .... but you are the only one that knows what suits you.
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Well I'm sitting here in my little studio bending the little E at the 17th fret all the way to the middle of the fretboard...in line with the dot... The note is still ringing like a bell.

Are you talking about bending further than that? Going to the down slope of the other side of he neck radius?
I don't ever see myself bending a bottom E all the way to the very top of the fretboard.
By the way a bend as far as I just did is probably over 2 steps.
I don't need more than that on a bend.
I'm just trying to get it to feet out and....short of snapping the string ...can't do it.
The action on that strat is pretty low. Lower than most guitars off the shelf of any music store.
The guy that refeetted it may have widened the radius ....I dunno...but the hwy 1 strats I've played have a much flatter radius and it would be hard for me to believe mine is much flatter than 7.25 to 8.5
 
jimistone said:
Well I'm sitting here in my little studio bending the little E at the 17th fret all the way to the middle of the fretboard...in line with the dot... The note is still ringing like a bell.
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dude ...... I'm not gonna argue about it .... You asked our experiences with this and I gave you mine. If it doesn't conform to what you want to hear ignore it ........ no prob.
 
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Lt. Bob said:
dude ...... I'm not gonna argue about it .... You asked our experiences with this and I gave you mine. If it doesn't conform to what you want to hear ignore it ........ no prob.
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I'm not trying to force you to conform to my opinion lt bob. I respect you opinion and you ability as musician very much. That being said you insinuated that I must not be doing big enough bends to make my strat fret out and I was letting you know that I was bending the E up past the center of the fretboard (2 strps) and it wasn't fretting out. I asked you if you were talking about even larger bends.

Sorry if it rubbed you the wrong way, but, when you say "well, I guess you don't do big 2 step bends like I do" you had to expect a response to that.

I just haven't ever had a note "fret out" on it and I have had that guitar since 1976.
I know it like the back of my hand.

All that being said... I agree with you that flatter fretboards are easier to play lead on, to bend strings on, and play on past the 12th fret. They also take lower action.
But...
In my opinion, they don't feel as nice for all around playing and will give you more hand fatigue by the end of a 4 set gig.
That's me....many, like you disagree and find the flat boards more comfortable.

I just wanted to bounce it around a bit. It's all good!
 
jimistone said:
I'm not trying to force you to conform to my opinion lt bob. I respect you opinion and you ability as musician very much. That being said you insinuated that I must not be doing big enough bends to make my strat fret out and I was letting you know that I was bending the E up past the center of the fretboard (2 strps) and it wasn't fretting out. I asked you if you were talking about even larger bends.
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How high is your action? And I don't mean just "Oh, it's pretty low and comfortable," but like exactly how high is it? Fretting out becomes more of a problem on a neck with a small radius as your action goes down, and if you just happen to like higher action, then it'll be less of a problem for you than someone who likes lower action. The flip side of course is that higher action can cause slight intonation problems, as you have to kind of "bend" the string down towards the fretboard to fret.

For me, relatively low action coupled with jumbo frets, on a flattish fretboard is the combination that works best - still plenty of "meat" to grab the string to make large bends, no choking when you do, but clean intonation with comfortably low action that allows for smooth legato playing, too. I don't know exactly where my action falls, put it's probably in the 2-2.5mm range.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
How high is your action? And I don't mean just "Oh, it's pretty low and comfortable," but like exactly how high is it? Fretting out becomes more of a problem on a neck with a small radius as your action goes down, and if you just happen to like higher action, then it'll be less of a problem for you than someone who likes lower action. The flip side of course is that higher action can cause slight intonation problems, as you have to kind of "bend" the string down towards the fretboard to fret.

For me, relatively low action coupled with jumbo frets, on a flattish fretboard is the combination that works best - still plenty of "meat" to grab the string to make large bends, no choking when you do, but clean intonation with comfortably low action that allows for smooth legato playing, too. I don't know exactly where my action falls, put it's probably in the 2-2.5mm range.
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I haven't measured mine but I would say it probably 1/16th of an inch off the fretboard...maybe less.
I'll pit it this way...the lip of my saddle on the little E is touching the bridge plate and I would have to file the saddle to go lower (which I don't want to do).
Like I said the guy that did the refret for me may have flattened the radius. There were some worn places in the fretboard and I know he had to take it down and he said " I wasn't going to dare take it down any more so I finished it by doing a little filling. He might have took it down and radiuses it to a 10.
I honestly don't know.
 
That's actually entirely possible, or alternately he may have radiused the frets (as I know Joe Satriani does this - his main guitar has a standard fretboard but the frets have a bit of a multiradius shaped into them - I'd just radius the board myself, but whatever). Also, how big is the fretwire? Still mini, or something a bit taller?

No choking on very low action on a 9" board with step-and-a-half and two-step bends would be VERY surprising to me.
 
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