Fostex R8 questions

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morganiccheese

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I just yesterday picked up a Foxtex R8 in great condition, with the exception of some dust. I've been trolling around this board trying to find answers to some of my questions but some are still unanswered. So I signed up and decided to post this. Here it goes.

Besides demagnetizing and cleaning the heads and the rest of the tape path is there anything I should know and/or do before I use this thing the first time?

I have the manual and I know it recommends 1 mil tape, but this machine came with used and new rolls of ampex 456 and 499, which i believe are both 1.5 mil tapes. What are the downsides and upsides (if any) to using the 1.5 mil tape? What do you guys use for tape in an R8?

Speaking of tape, I've done a little bit of searching on the internet but where can I get tape? On ebay ampex 457 is practically non-existent. Is there ANYBODY still making it?

I KNOW this is noob question but here it goes. How do I load a reel? Perhaps there is a demo video somewhere on the internet that someone knows of?

And another noob question. What is the best way to connect to a mixer? I remember a buddy of mine had a tascam 8-track and he had cables that went into the "insert" on the mixer and into the in/outs on his deck. Is that what I'm looking for? Is there perhaps a better or different way to do it?

Is there any question I didn't think of that I should have?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated as I'm as new as you can get to recording onto tape.

-Erik
 
r8

I can't answer your technical questions about your R8...I do know this, that, that unit was very influential in the very early 90's. There is almost a "cult" following of people that use R8's today....and forums -only for r8 owners-...do exist....so I guess you are not alone...but may have to hook up with r8 owners...good luck let me know what you find out...
 
I used to own an R8 and used it with Ampex 456 without any issues. The machine is not biased for use with 499 and I'm not sure if the electronics in it could handle the extra headroom that's required to use that tape so stick with the 456 for now and seek out some equivalent tape from RMG once you run out.

Also on the subject of tape and the 456 that you currently have, be mindful that sticky shed can be an ever appearing issue with older 456 tape stock so if you notice the machine struggling or stopping all by itself in a play or fast wind mode, that would be the sticky shed and you'll need to stop using that tape and aggressively re-clean the transport to get the gunk left behind.

There are sticky threads here on this forum about sticky shed syndrome so please read them.

Next issue; Threading tape. There should be a diagram and/or written instructions in the manual you say you have so take a quick look for that again.

Your manual too should step you through hooking it up to a mixer so here too re-read your manual. The basics of the hook-up is to use your mixer's program buss outs to feed the inputs on the R8 and the line outs of the R8 will connect to the line inputs on your mixer. The inserts on the mixer are there for connecting things like compressors or other signal processors like noise gates, etc.

What mixer do you have? If you don't yet have one get one that has at least 4 program recording buss outputs so that you can record a few instruments at a time without having to re-patch anything. Stay away from stereo PA mixers as these won't have the additional outputs you'll need to record and overdub as easily. The connection your mentioned your buddy using sounds like he too didn't have the right mixer for the job and had to use the inserts as there was no other choice.

The inputs 1-4 on the R8 are also internally bridged to the 5-8 input jacks too so you can save a bit of money on patch cords if you only get a 4 buss recording mixer. If you get an 8 buss mixer, you'll need to hook up all 8 mixer program buss outs to all 8 of the R8's inputs.

Cheers! :)
 
In case you can't find the tape threading info in the manual, here's a picture of how the tape needs to be threaded.



r8.jpg


Cheers! :)
 
morganiccheese said:
I just yesterday picked up a Foxtex R8 in great condition, with the exception of some dust. I've been trolling around this board trying to find answers to some of my questions but some are still unanswered. So I signed up and decided to post this. Here it goes.

Besides demagnetizing and cleaning the heads and the rest of the tape path is there anything I should know and/or do before I use this thing the first time?

I have the manual and I know it recommends 1 mil tape, but this machine came with used and new rolls of ampex 456 and 499, which i believe are both 1.5 mil tapes. What are the downsides and upsides (if any) to using the 1.5 mil tape? What do you guys use for tape in an R8?

Speaking of tape, I've done a little bit of searching on the internet but where can I get tape? On ebay ampex 457 is practically non-existent. Is there ANYBODY still making it?

I KNOW this is noob question but here it goes. How do I load a reel? Perhaps there is a demo video somewhere on the internet that someone knows of?

And another noob question. What is the best way to connect to a mixer? I remember a buddy of mine had a tascam 8-track and he had cables that went into the "insert" on the mixer and into the in/outs on his deck. Is that what I'm looking for? Is there perhaps a better or different way to do it?

Is there any question I didn't think of that I should have?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated as I'm as new as you can get to recording onto tape.

-Erik
Click to expand...

You can get 457 directly from www.quantegy-online.com it is NOS, quantegy is attempting to re-organize, (has been for months now.) You can also get QUantegy 041 from reeldealpa.com it is "seconds" of quantegy 407/457, it didn't meet QA specs for whatever reason, but is otherwise OK. THere are some people here who've used "white box" with no issues. For getting used to hte machine etc, it should be fine and it's only about $7 per roll.
 
Thanks for the info!

These answers though have only brought about more questions.

The Ghost of FM said:
In case you can't find the tape threading info in the manual, here's a picture of how the tape needs to be threaded.



r8.jpg


Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

Ghost,
I understand the tape path unfortunately my question was even more ignorant than you thought. What I meant was literally how do you attach the tape to the take up reel? A piece of tape? There appears to be remnants of masking or double-sided tape on the take up reel that came with my R8.
If so what kind of tape would I use?
 
morganiccheese said:
Thanks for the info!

These answers though have only brought about more questions.



Ghost,
I understand the tape path unfortunately my question was even more ignorant than you thought. What I meant was literally how do you attach the tape to the take up reel? A piece of tape? There appears to be remnants of masking or double-sided tape on the take up reel that came with my R8.
If so what kind of tape would I use?
Click to expand...

You are not supposed to use any form of adhesive tape to attach the recording tape to the take up reel as this can end up gunking up the heads and other parts of the transport and you don't want any sticky crap getting on them.

The "trick" is to use your finger to hold the tape in place against the inside of the hub and then spin the reel counter-clock-wise with your other hand until the tape is now held onto the hub by the tension of the layer or two on top of it. This takes a bit of practice and a bit of hand dexterity to do but, if you learned how to play the guitar, you can do this too!

It will be a bit trickier to do with 1/4" tape because there's less room to work with but after a few tries, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

The second step that is the easier part, is that once you've got the first layer of tape over itself, hand roll the reel a few more rotations to ensure the tape is snugly in place.

Also on many 7 inch reels, there is a little cut out groove that you can fold the end of the tape into to aid in holding it in place as you hand-wind the first few layer of tape over each other.

Cheers! :)
 
Now, regarding mixers . . .

The Ghost of FM said:
Your manual too should step you through hooking it up to a mixer so here too re-read your manual. The basics of the hook-up is to use your mixer's program buss outs to feed the inputs on the R8 and the line outs of the R8 will connect to the line inputs on your mixer. The inserts on the mixer are there for connecting things like compressors or other signal processors like noise gates, etc.

What mixer do you have? If you don't yet have one get one that has at least 4 program recording buss outputs so that you can record a few instruments at a time without having to re-patch anything. Stay away from stereo PA mixers as these won't have the additional outputs you'll need to record and overdub as easily. The connection your mentioned your buddy using sounds like he too didn't have the right mixer for the job and had to use the inserts as there was no other choice.

The inputs 1-4 on the R8 are also internally bridged to the 5-8 input jacks too so you can save a bit of money on patch cords if you only get a 4 buss recording mixer. If you get an 8 buss mixer, you'll need to hook up all 8 mixer program buss outs to all 8 of the R8's inputs.

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

First of all I do not currently own a mixer, but I do have access to my previously-mentioned friend's mixer. Said mixer is a Mackie with 10 or 12 mono channels a few stereo channels and 4 busses.

Now I understand how the insert works, but I remember once with this very mixer we were recording a live show, we were using the preamps on the board and went out of the "input" 1/4" jacks right into the digital multitrack. We got usable signals by doing this too. This didn't make sense to me at the time but, then I realized that the xlr and trs inputs must have been wired together in parallel like the "1" and "2" inputs on an old "4-hole" guitar amp. And the same way you can daisy chain amps you can split a signal to send to a recorder. Is this the case? If so is the the case with most mixers? And if so, would using 1/4" splitters on the inputs or trs to 2x rca cables work for recording up to 8 tracks at once?

If not, the set-up I am envisioning is to be able to record up 8 tracks simultaneously, but also have spare tracks/pre-amps to create 1 or 2 sub drum mixes to send to 1 or 2 channels and in case I either pick up a 16 track deck at some point or another R8 and sync box. And while doing this it would be nice to use 2-4 aux mixs to send to headphone or monitor mixs.

Can anyone think of a way or recommend a mixer to accomplish this at a somewhat reasonable price? Is this too naive/ambitious?

I'm looking at the Behringer 2442FX and Eurodesk 2442. Any thoughts on either of these?

Thanks and Cheers,
Erik
 
If you're needing to record all 8 tracks in on pass and only have that 4 buss mixer, then yes, you'll have to make use of the inserts with a TRS plug to two RCA plugs to accomplish 8 distinct inputs and output returns to the recorder.

Ideally though, what you should be looking for is an 8 buss mixer so that you can properly set up the sub mixes that you mentioned you wanted to do. There are numerous 8 buss mixers out there in the used and new market from the names you mentioned as well as a few from TASCAM and others.

If you were planning on moving to a 16 track deck at some point and needing a mixer to accommodate that or even just your R8, you'll need to look for a mixer that has Direct Outs on each of its main mixing channels. If you find one with that feature, you'll still be able to make use of the inserts for their intended purpose of processing effects like compressors and noise gates. I'm not familiar with those models you mentioned, if they have direct outs. If they do have direct outs, then you'll be able to accomplish what you wanted to.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
If you're needing to record all 8 tracks in on pass and only have that 4 buss mixer, then yes, you'll have to make use of the inserts with a TRS plug to two RCA plugs to accomplish 8 distinct inputs and output returns to the recorder. . . .

. . . you'll need to look for a mixer that has Direct Outs on each of its main mixing channels. If you find one with that feature, you'll still be able to make use of the inserts for their intended purpose of processing effects like compressors and noise gates. I'm not familiar with those models you mentioned, if they have direct outs. If they do have direct outs, then you'll be able to accomplish what you wanted to.

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

What my idea was was not to use the "insert" jacks but the "input" jacks as outputs/inputs in hopes that they'd be wired in parallel to the xlr jacks and would act exactly like direct outs, like the two sets of inputs are on vintage marshall and fender guitar amps.
 
morganiccheese said:
What my idea was was not to use the "insert" jacks but the "input" jacks as outputs/inputs in hopes that they'd be wired in parallel to the xlr jacks and would act exactly like direct outs, like the two sets of inputs are on vintage marshall and fender guitar amps.
Click to expand...

Mixers don't work that way. The inputs are exactly that; inputs. Advanced mixers with Direct outs give you an output of the channel once the signal has passed though all the controls of the channel strip so that you can have use of the EQ of the channel and any effects plugged into the insert. When you use the insert, you mat not even be getting access to the EQ on the board for recording as insert connections are usually before the EQ in the circuit path.

Sorry.

Cheers! :)
 
gotcha

thanks for all the input. this has been extremely helpful.

-Erik
 
I've worked for years with quantegy 456 and R8, never had any problems.

If you don't have direct outs on your mixer consider getting a patchbay (like behringer ultrapatch) and connect your channel inserts to it. When you choose the correct mode for the patchbay channel you can use the inserts as direct outs.
 
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