Fostex G16 - occasional rewinding issues

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WarmJetGuitar

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We've just scored a Fostex G16 with very minimal hearwear for about 200£ - a real bargain IMO. It sounds lovely.

But... sometimes it has trouble rewinding at full speed. I'm not using Ampex 456 or 499. The problem have occured using BASF 911 and another BASF tape I can't remember the name of so sticky shed don't seem to be the issue here (enlighten me if I'm wrong). The tape path is all clean. It only happens sometimes. What's even stranger is that it can easily go fast backwards when switching to edit mode and rewinding there - but this is no proper solution as the heads wear down to quickly this way. Fast forward is working just like it should.
Anyone knows what could be the cause and the cure? A belt replacement behind the left hand side reel hub maybe?
 
There are no belts in the G-16.

I was going to say you should check your rewind speed setting, which can be programmed to be slow-to-fast as you like it...but then, if it only happens sometimes, then it's an intermittent problem, and that could be any of the processors that control rewind speed.

Do you know how to access/check the 2nd function settings?
See what the Max Speed is set to.

Also, is this the basic unit or does it have the synchronizer card (it would have MIDI I/O in the back if it has the sync card)?
 
No belts - that's good news in the sense we don't have to mess with that.

I don't have the machine around me at home but I'll give the manual a good look next time I'm in the studio. Funnily enough it's rewinding fast when hitting "return to 0" as well. I'm not yet familiar with the 2nd function settings - hope the manual will give an introduction. Don't now about the MIDI functions either but I'll have a good look tomorrow. It's the Dolby C version, not the S if that has any saying.

I start getting the impression that this is a pretty advanced machine.
 
I have two G16 Dolby C decks. One is my primary that I purchased new back in 1990 (my god, has it been that long!!!), and it still runs like a champ (knock on wood)...the other is a used one I picked up just this past winter so I could have some extra parts if needed. It looks OK, but it has way more mileage on it than my original one.

The Dolby C or S isn't going to have any effect on wind speeds. Also...the C is apparently the better one to have as the C chips don't crap out like the S chips do.
AFA as the MIDI...just look at the back of the unit...if it has MIDI I/O then that's part of the optional synchronization package, and it will add MANY more 2nd Function features that you don't get with the basic deck, but even without the sync card, you have some 2nd Function features that can control/change the speeds...though again, the Max Speed setting would affect ALL RW/FW operations in the same way...so it may not help your problem.

If you get lost with the 2nd Function stuff...just ask...I have all the manuals and have been using my G16 regularly since 1990....though now I have the Otari MX-80 2", so the G16 is taking a long overdue rest, but I'm probably going to hold on to it as a back up, though I have to say the MX-80 has been running like a champ in the last 4 months that I've had it (again, knock on wood).
 
miroslav said:
I have two G16 Dolby C decks. One is my primary that I purchased new back in 1990 (my god, has it been that long!!!), and it still runs like a champ (knock on wood)...the other is a used one I picked up just this past winter so I could have some extra parts if needed. It looks OK, but it has way more mileage on it than my original one.

The Dolby C or S isn't going to have any effect on wind speeds. Also...the C is apparently the better one to have as the C chips don't crap out like the S chips do.
AFA as the MIDI...just look at the back of the unit...if it has MIDI I/O then that's part of the optional synchronization package, and it will add MANY more 2nd Function features that you don't get with the basic deck, but even without the sync card, you have some 2nd Function features that can control/change the speeds...though again, the Max Speed setting would affect ALL RW/FW operations in the same way...so it may not help your problem.

If you get lost with the 2nd Function stuff...just ask...I have all the manuals and have been using my G16 regularly since 1990....though now I have the Otari MX-80 2", so the G16 is taking a long overdue rest, but I'm probably going to hold on to it as a back up, though I have to say the MX-80 has been running like a champ in the last 4 months that I've had it (again, knock on wood).
Click to expand...

Otari MX-80 - you're really lucky dude!

Took a good look at the machine yesterday, it's the MIDI/sync card version. Found the 2nd functions and took the FF/RW speed to the max but it was pretty close already and didn't solve the problem. Problem is that the display is slightly f***ed so I can't find the function which puts all settings back to factory but it's mentioned in the manual. Would that be worth the try? Considering if the cable to the controller is worn out, will give it a try with the cable for my R8. Could reel size settings have any saying? The manual mention that it has settings for that as well.

Another question - the Dolby switch on the back - on the M80 and R8 it just says on and off but on this thing it has an third option. What's that?

A great thanks for your help so far.
 
After you enter 2nd Mode, the key combination to return all user memory settings to factory default is [8][9]

If your deck doesn't hold your user settings after power-down and then power-up a few days later...the internal battery is old/dead. It's soldered to a PCB in back, but when you remove the back panel, easily accessible.
My battery was still holding after almost 20 years...but I just went and dropped a new one in there a couple of years ago. They are a PITA to find...but still available (or a good sub).

AFA the NR switch...
On the G16 you have the option of all channels with NR or all without NR, or just track 16 without NR (for when you are putting SMPTE on that track)...and since you have the synchronizer version, I would go with that, as you will be able to (and probably want to) lock up the G16 with a DAW or other devices, which is pretty easy thanks to that sync card.
Don't get to crazy with all the 2nd Mode settings. I think with my setup, I only changed a few for my SMPTE sync use purposes.
They do give you a LOT of options with 2nd Mode...the G series was probably the most advanced transport/sync system of all smaller format decks, and rivals some of the pro decks.
Heck, my G16 has more sync options with the internal sync card than my Otari MX-80, though the MX-80 can do a lot when you hook up external sync boxes or one of the compatible Otari Auto-locators.
With the G16 and 8330 sync card...you already have all of that. :)


It's all outline in the basic manual and additional synchronizer manual...if you don't have the sync manual, here's a link to online download:

Fostex 8330 Manuals, Support and Troubleshooting
 
Thanks again Miroslav! You're help is invaluable.

The battery is all fine. I don't think the machine have been that busy untill now.

What do you use the sync functions for? We stay away from the DAW till final mixdown as we're kinnda purist about staying analog with the exception of hardware based digital effects as we're not rich and also dig the sound of late 80's bands such as Happy Mondays and My Bloody Valentine. But can you by any means use the computer as a tool for spot erasing while still keeping the audio on the R2R? You know, like having 16 waveforms on the screen and using the computer as an advanced remote for the tape recorder? That's probably too much too hope for on a '90 machine but it's one of these things that would be easy as pie to make if multitrack R2R's came back into production.
 
WarmJetGuitar said:
What do you use the sync functions for?
Click to expand...

When I want/need to have more than 16 tracks without bouncing down to the deck, I can then make a couple of dumps to DAW, and also when I want/need to drop tracks into the DAW for editing/comping.

WarmJetGuitar said:
But can you by any means use the computer as a tool for spot erasing while still keeping the audio on the R2R? You know, like having 16 waveforms on the screen and using the computer as an advanced remote for the tape recorder?
Click to expand...

The closest I ever came to that was with the G16 and my old Atari/Cubase sequencer. Steinberg had written a specific driver for the G16 and the original Atari/Cubase that would allow more specific machine control via Cubase besides basics....so, I was able to in Cubase set a punch in/punch out point...and it was pretty precise.
I think you might be able to do that with other tape decks and DAWs...but to be able to view/edit the actual waveform, while recording/playing back form the tape deck....no, I've not heard of that.
With SMPTE sycnronization...you CAN dump to DAW...edit and then lay back to the deck...which is easy with the G16, but it's going to be a complete A/D/A two-step conversion. If you are wanting to stay all analog, that won't work.

I'll be honest...the combination of a decent tape deck and DAW can't be beat. Sure, there may be something about staying all analog from start to finish, but the DAW has such powerful editing/comping capabilities that it will easily outperform anything you can do with just the tape deck.
If you have a really tight band, and you can record the tracks real good, where you are not wishing you could edit this or that or make any changes....then yeah, you can just stay all analog and live with what goes down on tape.

I am at this point working with my MX80 deck (giving my G16 a rest)....and since I'm now using 2" tape and more pro electronics of the MX80, I am trying to do a song using just the MX80 and no DAW.
It's a bit more difficult for me as I am the only one playing (with the exception of drums, at this time)...so it's not as easy as an entire band playing together. With the DAW, I could easily make up for some of my deficiencies on a particular track.
So far though, it's going along well, and I have been able to lay down tracks that I consider acceptable enough to mix directly from the MX80, without any DAW edits, but it takes a lot more rehearsing of all parts as a solo musician, and even when getting things down pretty good, I know if I dumped to DAW I could really polish up little stuff that may not be real important, but which would certainly improve the final mix even more.

I guess you have to see how things pan out for you. I think if you like going for that "live" feel, and having a more raw/rough vibe with your music....then you will probably be fine staying with tape only.
If you are looking for very polished productions, they are possible with tape, but certainly a LOT easier when you have DAW power, which is why I like the hybrid approach of tracking to tape, dumping to DAW and then mixing back out of the DAW in all analog.
It really is the best of both worlds...IMO...but I'm still going to give it a go using just the MX80 on at least a couple of songs. Honestly, I hate having to play something 20 times just 'cuz there's a little fret buzz on one note, or I missed a single word/phrase of a lyric...etc...etc.
I don't get hung up about editing/comping stuff. It's still all me playing, and I'm just cutting to the chase instead of doing Take 21 - Rhythm Guitar! :D
 
miroslav said:
that was with the G16 and my old Atari/Cubase sequencer. Steinberg had written a specific driver for the G16 and the original Atari/Cubase that would allow more specific machine control via Cubase besides basics....so, I was able to in Cubase set a punch in/punch out point...and it was pretty precise.
I think you might be able to do that with other tape decks and DAWs...but to be able to view/edit the actual waveform, while recording/playing back form the tape deck....no, I've not heard of that.
With SMPTE sycnronization...you CAN dump to DAW...edit and then lay back to the deck...which is easy with the G16, but it's going to be a complete A/D/A two-step conversion. If you are wanting to stay all analog, that won't work.

I'll be honest...the combination of a decent tape deck and DAW can't be beat. Sure, there may be something about staying all analog from start to finish, but the DAW has such powerful editing/comping capabilities that it will easily outperform anything you can do with just the tape deck.
If you have a really tight band, and you can record the tracks real good, where you are not wishing you could edit this or that or make any changes....then yeah, you can just stay all analog and live with what goes down on tape.

I am at this point working with my MX80 deck (giving my G16 a rest)....and since I'm now using 2" tape and more pro electronics of the MX80, I am trying to do a song using just the MX80 and no DAW.
It's a bit more difficult for me as I am the only one playing (with the exception of drums, at this time)...so it's not as easy as an entire band playing together. With the DAW, I could easily make up for some of my deficiencies on a particular track.
So far though, it's going along well, and I have been able to lay down tracks that I consider acceptable enough to mix directly from the MX80, without any DAW edits, but it takes a lot more rehearsing of all parts as a solo musician, and even when getting things down pretty good, I know if I dumped to DAW I could really polish up little stuff that may not be real important, but which would certainly improve the final mix even more.

I guess you have to see how things pan out for you. I think if you like going for that "live" feel, and having a more raw/rough vibe with your music....then you will probably be fine staying with tape only.
If you are looking for very polished productions, they are possible with tape, but certainly a LOT easier when you have DAW power, which is why I like the hybrid approach of tracking to tape, dumping to DAW and then mixing back out of the DAW in all analog.
It really is the best of both worlds...IMO...but I'm still going to give it a go using just the MX80 on at least a couple of songs. Honestly, I hate having to play something 20 times just 'cuz there's a little fret buzz on one note, or I missed a single word/phrase of a lyric...etc...etc.
I don't get hung up about editing/comping stuff. It's still all me playing, and I'm just cutting to the chase instead of doing Take 21 - Rhythm Guitar! :D
Click to expand...

The syncroniser for Cubase sounds very interesting! Can't help by drooling from the very thought of what could be done with no AD/DA-conversions with todays technology used to control a tape desk.

We like the sound of a live band playing - including leakage and minor accidents. If someone makes a mistake or just steps on a cable during a good take and the take for some reason can't be redone as well as the original (because of improvisation or just some undefined magic in sound or feeling) we usually just ride the fader and if the leakage from the overhead mics is too loud we dub some weird stuff on top of that. Works for us. But would still love the option of doing editing or even fades from a computer with no conversions.
 
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