For those of you who rail incessantly on Behringer...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ironklad Audio
  • Start date Start date
There is a difference between copying a body style thats well worn and copying a signal chain in a circuit that was custom designed. Not to mention copied cheaply. Nope, not only do I realize they're bogus but not quite the bargain they claimed to be. Consider me swung.

(1) B1 - Still working
(1)Mic2200 - Dead
Bunch of stuff that still works.
None starts with Behr
Most sounds OK
I Love Tubes
(Christ, my Maximizer from 8 years ago still works. I know cause I hit the switch and the light comes on

:D
 
I'm a noob to the whole recording and Live sound thing....and yes I have to start somewhere. I have some great poweramps (QSC RMX series) although heavy as hell and the best hit for the money. A few 1802 subs and 1588's from carvin...yes budget...but does the job. Oh yeah...and behringer stuff: (DDX3216, Ultracurve EQ, Ultradrive X-Over, (3) B215 mons). I know it's not the best...but it's entry-level gear for me to learn on and for the money....if it takes a crap...I'll be disappointed but not pissed. The DDX3216 was OK...it had a ton of features....the first one had a bad power supply but was promptly replaced and have had no problems since. It taught me the basics about compressors, limiters, Param EQ's, Assigning sub groups, FX's, I/O's with the help of the web. As soon as I get a few years of experiance...some school...and better gear...and see some real sound and lighting techs in action...I'll just keep my fingers crossed. Just my two cents:D
 
When you are ready for more amps. I recently discovered a new line that will open your ears, and not your wallet. We have been using the new FACE audio amps and they are incredible. They are spec'd at slightly more powerfull than a Crown Macrotech 2400, but are priced more like the QSC RMX series;)

In a few more months I will personally be able to testify as to their longevity as well, althogh local bench and shop testing has already shown them to be a real possible winner:D
 
Show me all these pro reviews who dis Behringer, just show me three! I can show you REAL pros who use Behringer gear right now. Real pros, as in, real producers with million seller albums (many) and real artists with million seller albums (many), real engineer etc.

Teddy Riley (hit producer), Jermaine Dupri, Babyface, Usher etc

How do you know this?
 
A lot of people say Behringer sucks simply because they disagree with their "business practices". Load of crap. Don't post your opinion on a piece of gear if you're biased about the company.

I've only used a couple Behringer products so I can't speak for the rest, but the ones I used (especially the ECM8000 mics) work really well.
 
You get what you pay for.


That adage won't be any less true a hundred years from now.


Here's the thing. Use the gear you want to use. Ignore the opinions of others. Let your ears tell you if and when it is time to upgrade.

You've nothing to gain from taking a position on either side of this debate.

What isn't debatable is that two products may contain vastly different components and do roughly the same thing. They are not, and never will be, equivalent products.
 
I skipped through most of the debate. But for those who are interested, here is the gear list for the studio. I noticed in his gear list he does not mention Behringer. Maybe he has upgraded since the pics.

Gear List: (the basics)

A/D & D/A:
-RME FIREFACE 800 (20 channels in real time)
-MOTU 8028 MKIII (selling $900.00)
-PRESONUS FIREPOD (selling $400.00)
-MACKIE BIG KNOB

MIC PRE:
-GREAT RIVER ME-1NV (single channel)
-MACKIE ONYX 800R (eight channels)
-VINTECH X73 (soon)

MICROPHONES:
-AUDIO-TECHNICA AT3035
-AUDIX D2 (x2)
-AUDIX D6
-AUDIX i5
-BEYERDYNAMIC M 201 TG
-NEUMANN KM184 (MSP) (soon)
-SENHEISER E609
-SENHEISER MD421 II (x2)
-SHURE SM57 (x2)
-SHURE BETA 57
-SHURE BETA 52
-OKTAVA MK-012 (MSP)
-RODE NT1000
-RODE K2 TUBE MIC

SOFTWARE:
-NUENDO 3.2
-SOUND FORGE 8.0
-WAVES PLUGINS
-UAD POWERED PLUGINS

OTHER:
-MOGAMI AND MONSTER CABLES EXCLUSIVELY
-POD XT (classix, fx, metal, and bass packs)
-POD XT PRO (classic, fx, and metal packs)
-DDRUM TRIGGERS
-IBANEZ TUBESCREAMER TS9DX
-RE-AMP v2 RED
-MORELY TRIPLER
-MORELY A/B/Y
-DUNLOP CRYBABY 535-Q WAH
-MARTIN MAHOGONY ACOUSTIC
-ESP LTD F-400 (active EMG 81's)
-PARKER FLY DELUXE (soon)
-KORG X50 SYNTHESIZER
-KORG KAOS PAD V3
 
Let's just say that you're hiring a skilled carpenter to re-do your kitchen cabinets. You interview a couple of them and during the process, you learn that one only has a few inexpensive tools but assures you that he can make up for it with his skill, although it will take more work and a little more material. The other has all the tools that will be needed and they are high quality tools to boot. They both say they are professionals and will do the job for the same price. Who would you hire?

I know that even a beginner carpenter will not be able to afford the highest quality tools available, but as he develops his skills, he will learn the difference in cheap tools vs. good tools. As he improves his skills and if he invests some of his earnings back into better tools, he will be a highly skilled professional in a few years...able to do the best quality work for the price.

The same rules apply to all aspects of life. We have to start somewhere, but where we end up is based on what we are willing to invest.

OK, that just cost me 2 minutes. I demand a refund.
 
drums totally sound like triggers. doesn't matter what kind of gear you use if just sample replace.

I would love to record a good amp/player/band with behringer preamps and mics over shitty amps and playing with A+ pres.

this has probably already been said... whatever.
 
We typically have some behringer gear around. Never in a critical application that is also time critical. I really like their active DI a lot, but I have them fail often so keep two around.

The ada8k I REALLY like, very handy, easy to use adat based expansion for sooooooooooooooooooo cheap its criminal. Again though, nothing time critical as they are extremely failure prone. Also, in terms of mic pre's they are noisy, distorted and bandlimited compared to even halfway decent stuff. I honestly can't complain about the included converters though...there are much bigger problems in the chain to worry about usually.
 
Even for the genre the thing sounds very mushy...not much definition or seperation of sounds. Same for the guitars...the playing is fine (if you like the "I want to be Guns n Roses in 1988" style) but I don't like the tone..could be the effects, could be the amp, guitar, mic, pre etc...could be the cheap streaming that killed the high end athough I hear alot of stuff on myspace that sounds at least ok...Usually this occurs when someone using harsh gear and mics tries to roll off or attenuate the high end in an attempt to reign in those frequencies. One thing one will notice as they step up from the prosumer stuff is the need for less eq and effects. While you still use them to shape sounds and mixes the need for drastic curves to achieve moderately flat mixes becomes obsolete.. I personally could care less what you record with but if you put a mix up as a good example of a mix done on cheap gear...it should be good. You want to hear good on inexpensive gear? Listen to Harvey's stuff. He gets more out of less than anyone here.

Cheers,
Ray
 
Behringer gets railed upon so much because of three reasons:

1. It is made in China. Of course a great many name brands now also have their stuff made in China, but Behringer was the first to openly and unashamedly go there. This caused a lot of "PC" animosity.

2. It is cheap. ....meaning LESS EXPENSIVE. That means EVERYONE in the music industry is going to automatically bash it because they don't make as much money selling it.

2. It is cheap....meaning very flimsy mechanically. This contributes to its low cost, and reliability can become an issue. But the same holds true for much of the M-Audio gear and numerous other inexpensive products.


I am an Acoustic Engineer...not an AUDIO Engineer. I work with sonars and ultrasonic transducers whose specifications far surpass anything even dreamed of in the audio world. Behringer makes fine SOUNDING equipment. If you have a properly functioning Behringer, it will sound as good as ANYTHING out there. The world of audio is full of a lot of insecure arteeests trying to justify the higher quality of their sound and artist endeavors with more expensive equipment. Also, in truth, a more physically rugged and robust piece of equipment contributes to long-term value....but not necessarily to audible quality. Just as completely hash out in the preamp threads, not even the most golden-eared audiophile can reliably distinguish between preamps. Same holds true for mixers, etc. I have owned numerous bits of Beghringer stuff and never had any problems with any of it. In fact, the Ultracurve and Ultracomp DSP units are superior to many competitors, and provide features that no other units provide.
Yet once every 3-4 months, I log in to check this forum and find the SAME PEOPLE vigorously bashing Behringer.
If you don't like it....OK. But the relentless bashing becomes obviously part of some agenda.

The 'ethical issue":
How many moral purists were sent into a fit when DBX copied the ART Tube MP ?
:D

dbxminipre-69941a5350e813f6d67dcbd512ccc62e.jpg
art_tubemp_original-51ee7e27286c24468a9059840fb24ee7.jpg
 
Though I pretty much agree with what I think is the intent of your post, I see a few things differently


Behringer gets railed upon so much because of three reasons:

1. It is made in China. Of course a great many name brands now also have their stuff made in China, but Behringer was the first to openly and unashamedly go there. This caused a lot of "PC" animosity.

I think it would be more correct to say that the PC position was to NOT complain about Chinafying gear, even if it meant child labor or prison labor or unfair one sided trade practices, environmental catastrophe. It would be un-PC to complain about these issues

2. It is cheap. ....meaning LESS EXPENSIVE. That means EVERYONE in the music industry is going to automatically bash it because they don't make as much money selling it.

Usually this means you will make more selling it. Its not 1000 units for 1$ vs 1 unit for 1000$, its more like 10,000 units for 10$. Volume of sales has gone thru the roof. EVERYONE has a band/recording studio/record company nowdays

2. It is cheap....meaning very flimsy mechanically. This contributes to its low cost, and reliability can become an issue. But the same holds true for much of the M-Audio gear and numerous other inexpensive products.

Yup, other crap made out of crap parts, with (and here is the important part) total crap quality control, will be crap. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if the maudio stuff, presonus, emu and whatever else werent made at the exact same factory

We have seen for sure how name brand mic companies are rebadging 797 mics. Look at the Telefunken vs APEX thing http://www.studioreviews.com/m16-460.htm

If you have a properly functioning Behringer, it will sound as good as ANYTHING out there.

Where could I buy a properly functioning behringer? While a lot of the stuff is fine, a lot of it is distorted, noisy, bandlimited crap, which you would easily be able to tell with your so far superior acoustic equipment.

Its funny, but my 10 dollar onboard soundcard can prove these measurments just fine.

Just as completely hash out in the preamp threads, not even the most golden-eared audiophile can reliably distinguish between preamps

Good thing we don't trust audiophiles to pick our mic preamps. Operate a bunch of mic pre's outside of their linear range and you'll be able to tell just fine. There is one glaring area where it absolutely cannot be disputed that the mic pre's are acting different and thats the crossover distortion or lack thereof in Class A biasing vs other methods.

Not saying you need class A mic pre's just saying there is inarguably a difference

In fact, the Ultracurve and Ultracomp DSP units are superior to many competitors, and provide features that no other units provide.

I find this too. Kiler bang for the buck, killer bang for any buck

The 'ethical issue":
How many moral purists were sent into a fit when DBX copied the ART Tube MP ?

First of all, many people are IN music because of ethics, so don't go thinking they are being facetious when they say they oppose behringer on moral grounds.

Saying "its ok DBX does it too" is nothing but a Tu Quoque justification

Furthermore, as far back as 1998, you will see people screaming of how piss poorly the dbx line went when it went cheap. Take a look at threads on the dbx 386
 
Saying "its ok DBX does it too" is nothing but a Tu Quoque justification
I am not justifying it....I am pointing out the hypocrisy of those who rail against Behringer while ignoring the same behavior of a "US" brand name. :D

Truth is: they all copy from each other relentlessly, so whether we think it is justified or not is a moot point to this discussion.

It wouldnt surprise me one bit if the maudio stuff, presonus, emu and whatever else werent made at the exact same factory
And yet the M-Audio DMP2 and DMP3 9as well as many others) are wel respected sound-wise.

That's the nice thing about audio: anyone can have their opinion, and no matter how evidence there is, there are always enough layers of obscurity to the actual testing that no one can be proven correct or incorrect....so insecure people continue to shell out more and more $$$ to get "high quality". It is just so amazing that people who will swear that Behringer sounds like crap can never correctly distringuish different brands of audio gear in truly blind A/B tests.

Enjoy !
 
So did DBX really steal the ART Tube MP? Or was it maybe shared technology that was used by two companies under the umbrella of the same parent company that are both working in the same building?

I certainly agree that some Behringer bashing is just about being on the bandwagon, but some of it really is about the gear just being that bad. I make no pretense that most other gear in the same price range is just about as bad, sometimes worse. To pretend though that sounds or acts or even feels like ANY other peice of equipment out there however is absolutely silly.
 
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