For those of you who rail incessantly on Behringer...

[killmachine]

Yeah that's stupid, just listen to the sound clip and judge from that if you don't like it. I checked it, the sound was ok. But that's to be expected from myspace clips. It's pretty much the same as any "local" band's record sounds. I've had friends go record with guys that own SSL's and sound worse than that. And visa versa. It's all what you get at the end. Was the band happy with the outcome? Was the engineer happy? Cause I know personally I wouldn't want to put my name on it if it wasn't something that I wasn't happy with.

I own Behringer gear. Not gobs but 1 important componant. I think it's good for the money and good for "bands" on a budget. However, that's what it is, "budget equipment". Just like buying a Fender squir instead of Fender Strat.

 

[studiomaster]

You'll have to excuse me but.......I'd rather listen to 60hz hum than what I heard on that link you sent us to. Tell me you do NOT call that music? If that is music than indeed I've passed on into another world. Sorry, but screaming and yelling and banging will NEVER be music in my book.....and perhaps not even worthy of Behringer gear........even the distortion specs are lower than the drivel I just heard.........

Stop being a music illiterate.

and yes, stop being a little bitch too.

 

[sloom]

It might still be a good song and a good performance, but it won't sound as good as it could have if better gear had been used.

Of course much of it depends on skill, but the better tools you can put in the hands of a skilled person the better it will sound.

Okay, I'm having an issue with this kind of statement. Not because it's wrong necessarily... but because it implies across-the-board truth. Isn't it true that what fits- is what fits? Maybe you don't always want such clarity; maybe you want that less-than-true color, because it suits the vibe of the song/performance. The work done with (what we'll call) better tools might not sound better at all- but you don't know 'till after you've listened to the results. And just because you like it better, that doesn't mean it is better, or the most suitable production for that piece.

Keep an open mind, now...

I've said that a recording studio does not represent reality. That's why maybe you've got a boom-box nearby to test your mixes. Specs ain't music, and I'd rather have friendly sounds for my ear than sample-accurate for sample-accuracy's sake. Before you go off on this, just think about it. Too much perfection begins to miss the point of trying to reproduce that musical reality that happened once.

You have a critical ear for a reason, but not everything has to pass through this high-end process. That's as bad as using that beautiful sounding compressor on everything.

 

[xstatic]

I agree that sometimes things jsut fit right.... be it cheap or expensive. However, in the vast majority of cases, a nice piece of equipment will sound better. It is also important to remember that not all nice equipment is "crystal clear". In fact, a good share of it is desired for the fact that it isn't.... ala Neve 1073, 1081, Neumann U47, U67, Trident, API, Manley, Pendulum, DW Fearn, Calrec etc... Those are all typical pieces that have a very disitinctive sound of their own.

I think one of my favorite defenses is when people say "well band "x" just used the console pre's...." So? The people that say stuff like that just have not used a good console before. Many of the outboard units that cost a lot and are desired today are based on attempting to recreate the sound of those old consoles. Just look at the old Neve, UA, EMI TG, Trident desks etc... Those are some of the most expensive and sought after sounds today

 

[jaykeMURD]

It's the engineers talent and the "studio" itself that make the difference. I've been in a few demo/cheap studios and they aren't the buildings/rooms themselves aren't that well built. Sure, they had the basic soundproofind and other amendments to help, but the higher-end studios are built with music in mind.

There's still only so far you can go with cheaper (Behringer) gear. If you're not that great of an engineer, the higer-end equipment, in theory, will make your material sound better.

 

[sloom]

Xstatic, I believe that makes sense. I myself own pretty low-end type gear, for the most part- a hobby studio. But I'm into it, I seem to think I should be doing it, and have been playing bass and singing, live and in studios, for 25+ years.

My complaint was a simple one: It doesn't matter from which end of the spectrum you are coming from, this whole business of music production is about sound and what you do to get it. There seem to be very few absolutes involved, like in most things. To say this or that is better/meaningless, as a blanket statement, is an untrustworthy one.

Also I have heard quite a bit about clarity and such concerning A/D converters, et al. Sometimes I feel that recorded musical sounds, if they're too crystal clear, are unreal and even annoying. Maybe a tad invasive?? But I digress. Again... Your point is well taken.

 

[Soundmind??]

Let's just say that you're hiring a skilled carpenter to re-do your kitchen cabinets. You interview a couple of them and during the process, you learn that one only has a few inexpensive tools but assures you that he can make up for it with his skill, although it will take more work and a little more material. The other has all the tools that will be needed and they are high quality tools to boot. They both say they are professionals and will do the job for the same price. Who would you hire?

I know that even a beginner carpenter will not be able to afford the highest quality tools available, but as he develops his skills, he will learn the difference in cheap tools vs. good tools. As he improves his skills and if he invests some of his earnings back into better tools, he will be a highly skilled professional in a few years...able to do the best quality work for the price.

The same rules apply to all aspects of life. We have to start somewhere, but where we end up is based on what we are willing to invest.

 

[ryanlikestorock]

With any piece of gear comes a specific sound. If you want THAT sound, you better get THAT gear. That's all there is to it.

I was recording this female vocalist last week. Something wasn't right with the sound. I tried different pres, eq and limiting without things getting better. Then, I swapped the high end mic for an SM57 and everything fell into place. Sometimes price doesn't matter.

On the other hand, my first upgrade from a Mackie board to high end outboard preamps was an exciting day. Everything sounded a LOT better - no matter how you define it. I have yet to swap a Neve channel for a Mackie or Behr product. The day might come, but I'm sure it'll catch me off guard and probably never happen again.

We all want the best gear but some of us can't afford it. So, ya gotta make the best with what you've got and upgrade when you can - even just for options. That's really what it's all about.

 

[noisedude]

Oh please, guys, let's not get all precious about rock music. It's been around hardly long enough to be a pimple on the arse of music history yet. Yeah, Road Warrior's post was pretty bloody ignorant, but let's not pretend we're all standing in a great tradition of this or that ... rock is a very young genre (although its musical simplicity has allowed it to develop quite rapidly over the last 50 years or so).

Peace,
Nik

 

[sloom]

Oh please, guys, let's not get all precious about rock music. It's been around hardly long enough to be a pimple on the arse of music history yet. Yeah, Road Warrior's post was pretty bloody ignorant, but let's not pretend we're all standing in a great tradition of this or that ... rock is a very young genre (although its musical simplicity has allowed it to develop quite rapidly over the last 50 years or so).

Peace,
Nik

But it's been around since the beginning of my life! I can't have pretensions about what I don't really know as my own history, like an era of early symphonic orchestral music... so I have to have them about what's relevant to me. That's rock and roll, baby (and you can throw straight-ahead and first-generation fusion jazz in that number, too).
So let's not go screwing around with my Precious, okay?

Humanity is not even a pimple on the arse of geographical history at all yet- and it just might never make it to be! So there.

 

[gemsbok]

although sounding good to me it has the demo quality to it. the drums are mush and the singer needs a de-esssser. i dont care about the type of music. its not a show case piece to me by any means just a good job with equipment at hand.

 

[twostone]

I resent the carpenter story you'll be surprized what I can do with just skill saw,lol great theroy I agree 100% I could imagine if he had higher end gear how much better it would sound but he brought out the best of what Behringer had to offer so I would agree with his rates sounds fair ,because he knows his limits as like a wiseman knows his limitations.

 

[fraserhutch]

although sounding good to me it has the demo quality to it. the drums are mush and the singer needs a de-esssser. i dont care about the type of music. its not a show case piece to me by any means just a good job with equipment at hand.

That's the gist of the whole point to me - invariably anyone who points out music (theirs or others) as an example of what great results can be achieved with budget gear also invariably end up adding the disclaimer "great results considering the gear used".

FWIW, I don't disagree that excellent music cannot be recorded decently with budget gear.

 

[chessrock]

What the fuck is the point?

I suppose if I were to post a picture of me driving a lemon of a car on the highway, I could then go point out to everyone how awesome of a car I have. Look! It's running in this picture and I'm driving it!

What you don't see is the picture of me pushing it to the nearest service station 10 minutes after the picture was shot.

Behringer stuff is built like crap, and as long as you don't mind using disposable gear ... then go ahead and buy all you want.

.

 

[Soundmind??]

The point I'm trying to make is that we all have to start somewhere, and usually it is with inexpensive gear. No problem there, I've got several Nady, Behr@#$%, ART, Presonus, etc pieces of gear and there are occasional uses for them. I also have MXL microphones in the same cabinet as the Neumann, AKG, Rode, and Shure mics. My MXL 990 has been used several times on vocals, right beside the KSM44 and the U87. if I could only have 1 mic, it would be the U87 or the KSM44 because they are the most accurate and sensitive. The MXL will do a good job on some vocals, but not others.

I'm not critical of hobbyists, amateurs, and professionals using inexpensive gear when it is all they can afford, or fits a specific need. I just suggest that you buy the best you can afford, and build on your tool kit with good tools as you can afford them....just don't fool yourself with the hype the marketing brochures offer. A "tube" in a budget preamp is only slightly functional at best and the circuitry could have been improved with better components in the solid state world by omitting the tube circuit and investing that cost in quality. My beef with Behri@#$ is their lack of ethics and failure to comply with laws.

 

[epidemic]

slightly off topic but if i went to this guy for mixing/mastering and not recording. the Behringer factor wouldnt affect me right? after seeing those prices i thought it'd be a good idea for the next few compilations as im still uppin my sound quality and not quite where i want to be yet.

 

[sloom]

slightly off topic but if i went to this guy for mixing/mastering and not recording. the Behringer factor wouldnt affect me right? after seeing those prices i thought it'd be a good idea for the next few compilations as im still uppin my sound quality and not quite where i want to be yet.

What you track with is the most critical part in your gear chain. As long as you're getting good signal in to disc, you have the opportunity to end up with good tracks. I have to say, try and find the best gear you can- borrow something if you need to.

I'm not an expert on Behri stuff, but the principle is a good one- good signal in is the first thing. What you start with will affect everything that comes after.

 

[xstatic]

It certainly could affect you if he is mixing analog and using behringer for all the inserts etc... I say forget the Behringer thing. If you like what this guy does, then use him. I finally listened to the stuff. I thought it was pretty decent. There are still some "local" giveaways though. All in all a pretty good job though.

 

[EDAN]

It might still be a good song and a good performance, but it won't sound as good as it could have if better gear had been used.

Of course much of it depends on skill, but the better tools you can put in the hands of a skilled person the better it will sound.

Well, we've been programed to believe we need this and that to get the job done. Neil Youngs "Sugar Mountain" was done at home with a cassette player. No amount of gear could make that song or recording hit home better.

 

[EDAN]

What you should be thinking about is not whether or not you can get decent results from a Behringer. Anyone with wny experience knows you can. However, those same people also know how much better it could be if you were not handicapped from the get go by the bulk of Behringer gear. Thats what I would be thinkin about

As far as EDAN's statement. All the "good reviews" is a full on load of bullshit. There are only a small handful of actual reviews by people with actual knowledge and experience that really show Behringer products in a good light. There are however more reviews than I could possibly count where those people with experience, talent, and proven success absolutely refuse to use it unless special circumstances apply or they have no other option.

Show me all these pro reviews who dis Behringer, just show me three! I can show you REAL pros who use Behringer gear right now. Real pros, as in, real producers with million seller albums (many) and real artists with million seller albums (many), real engineer etc.

Teddy Riley (hit producer), Jermaine Dupri, Babyface, Usher etc

Paul Hicks (Engineer) (used Behringer gear on The Beatles Anthology remasters)

Tony Visconti (Hit producer, David Bowie, Thin Lizzy) Tony's words; "A compressor is a compressor, it doesn't matter if its a $5,000 one of a $150.00 one. You have to know how to use it, I've heard people make very bad records on expensive gear. The gear does not dictate the quality, it's how you use it" Tony also uses other consumer based gear.

Dave Pomeroy (First call Nashville session bassist) He's played on countless hit country albums over the last decade. Behringer Auto-com pro in his recording rig, right along side his Avalon

Engineer Bo “Obi-Bob” Mahoney, (Blues Travelers live mix engineer) Behringer stereo mic preamps on John Poppers harmonica

Chuck D (legendary rap/hip hop producer) Behringer V-Amp

Pat “9th Wonder" Douthit (Hip hop producer) Nas, Jay-Z, Destiny's Child

Alex Lifeson (Guitarists for RUSH)

These people couldn't possibly know more than you! If Behringer gear is good enough for these REAL professionals with REAL credits and REAL reputations than it's MORE than good enough for ANYONE out here.