For those of you who long to be a "pro" engineer...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harvey Gerst
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Mixerman For President

Wow, this is funny!!!!! Thanks for clueing us in Harvey. And as usual Chessrock sounds like a real hard person to be around. Rock On!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Mixerman For President

Stinky said:
as usual Chessrock sounds like a real hard person to be around.

I appreciate and respect your opinion on this. You stated that you think I'd be difficult to be around, which is a very honest and respectful criticism. No curse words or needless insults. :D

But I have to wonder what parts of my posts you feel indicate that I'd be difficult. Granted, I was very critical in my first post, which probably came off harsh. I know I can be long-winded and opinionated, but difficult? You might do yourself a favor and re-read some of the things I've said in my last few posts. In particular:

So the drummer sucks. Find out why he's sucking and learn what buttons need to be pushed to get him to play his best. And if all else fails, pull out Allsigot. And I understand it's frustrating when things feel like they're falling apart, but you can't let it get you down or turn your attitude negative. Especially towards those you are working with.

Does that really sound like a difficult person? How about this one? :

Try approaching things with a positive attitude. Look for the best traits in the people you're working with and bring them out. Enjoy the fact that you're getting paid and that you have a job doing something I assume you love and are passionate towards.

Are those words of a difficult person? Hmmm. Here's another one:

You're a horendously funny person with a witty sense of humor. Try and apply it to your situation by making those around you laugh. Use it to break some of the tension in the air.

I'm no rocket scientist, but those kinda' sound like positive statements. Maybe even . . . oh, I don't know, maybe even constructive ? The kind of person I'd probably want to work with. Maybe you'd rather deal with someone who beats people over the head regularly with a hammer or something. To each his own.

Some of you really surprize me. There are those on this forum who have just basically decided that they aren't going to like what I have to say before I even say it, and without even reading what I say. That's okay, I guess. Sad. But okay.
 
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hmmm

none of us know any of these people so.... We can each have our own opinions and no one will ever know who is right.

I am enjoying the storie and like the insight.

MM is more than likely the best judge of any of us on the subject of weather it's Mr. Dumb Ass or Mr. dumass.


Can't wait for more of MM's posts:)


F.S.
 
*plant...*

I spit java in your general direction...

My opinion is that you can love what you're doing & be pissed off about it at the same time. Every time I go in to a club to do a live sound gig, I have to figure out what the "house tech" (usually a friend of the bartender) has fucked up. I have to reset the system configuration, swear to the owner or the "tech" that I'm not going to fry the gear - argue & beg for shit like another extension cord or something - get the bands set up & play the "more me in the monitors" or "I can't hear anything up here" game. I have to try & explain that just because the bass amp goes to "11," it doesn't need to be set there... I can go on & on. I do this shit over and over...

I'm also the regular sound tech for a friend's band who uses gear older than I am. I'm always having to fix some shit on the spot & also deal with one of the wives (who handles the door take) who doesn't think I should be paid at all (never mind I'm already doing the gig for about 70% less than I would charge anyone else.)

It's total bullshit, and my ass is on the line everytime I show up. If a mic cable goes bad during a show, who's gonna get the blame? Me. I don't even own the damn thing!

Anyway, I love what I do... but I still get pissed about the bullshit. I end up playing electrician, plumber, babysitter... you name it... and get little credit. I get a few bucks in my pocket & listen to the drunks tell the band how badass they sounded .

Anyway, I might walk around pissed for half of the night - but that's a good thing. I wouldn't be pissed at all if I didn't give a shit. I think that's where MixerMan is coming from. He wants to do a good job, be left alone by the jerks, not have someone else fucking up his work. I can dig that. I'd probably be pissed at the situation too...
 
How does this happen.......

...a seemingly innocuous thread posted by Harvey referencing another Forum's decidedly humourous post by Mixerman... and it turns into a fuckin' flame-fest?!?!?!

:confused:


WTF?????????
 
I'll probably regret this.........but I have to go with chessrock in general on this.
Basically in a situation you have two choices, either do the project or don't. If you hate it that bad then don't do it. I've quit jobs before for various reasons as have we all. But if you decide to do the project...then you might as well be positive. say what you will but negative energy breeds even more negative results.

It's like playing with musicians. We've all played with people who were, for example, habitually late or grumpy or whatever. You have to decide if what they offer is worth putting up with that or not. If it's not then they're gone. But if the band is good enough with them that you want to play despite that......then you might as well not get pissed when they do what is in their nature to do. And to me this is the same sort of thing. Either do it or don't but if you're gonna do it then make the best of it you can. My wife and I just took our first trip to Florida in a year and ran right into tropical storm Bertha. Totally fucked up our trip but instead of being bummed, as I know some of my friends would have been, we just made the best of it and had a good time even though we couldn't go to the beach and our roof leaked.

Always remember, until you're dead, it's all life.
 
Like everything, there are two sides to the coin. My take is that mixerman has a lofty standard of excellence that he'd like to maintain but he runs into things that are lower than his standards. That can be frustrating for a perfectionist. His thread is, more than anything, a way to vent those frustrations. At the gig, I bet he's much more positive than his thread indicates, but who knows?

I remember doing a session for such a guy once. I was playing guitar and the band just didn't have its timing together. The bass and drums were not gelling, I couldn't figure out who to follow and it turned into a trainwreck. Finally, the engineer pulled out some tracks as an example of what he expected. I know he was frustrated as hell, but he was at least professional with us--no yelling or verbal abuse. These kinds of situations are par for the course for an engineer--not every band is a Lexus going down a freshly paved road.

I have a friend who engineers for some household names of rock and he has told me tales that made my jaw drop. If you want to run with the big boys you have to keep yourself in check, which he does. The artist's ideas for what consititutes a great sounding track may be off the deep end for the engineer. Its always a compromise situation. You do your best.

I'm amazed at the differences between an LA rock session and a Nashville session. Having seen how Nashville works, I'd love to see the sparks fly if this group and producer went there for their sessions. Now that would be a real funny article!
 
typical LA idiocy

I agree with chessrock. Try a job in the real world for a while. I have more respect for my plumber. At least he isn't whinning while hes making wages for hard work. This only confirms my belief that music biz "pros" are too damn busy slapping themselves and thier "artists" backs for all the hardwork theyve done all week. Give me a fucking break. Try 14 hrs in an emergency room, or being in the belly of an aircraft carrier when its 114 degrees and your trying to sleep after standing watch for 4 hrs. after a 10 hr day. Poor recording engineer. You don't know how fucking lucky you are. And if you really think you have it bad, my son would love to trade places with you. He's in Afganastan. Standing watch with a rifle. And he doesn't whine. Yea chessrock, your right, it is funny.
 
Wow, Rick.

It's one thing to ignore Chessrock's red herrings when he starts babbling about textbook economic theory, but when you take the discussion all the way across the map...to Afganastan!

I can only respond by sending my highest regards to your son for doing the job that allows the rest of us to live comfortably in this great country of ours.

I can't tell the barrel of a gun from a plunger handle.
 
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studio story

I can't get to the mixerman diaries today


It is wonderfully entertaining reading the behind the scenes accounts. However, some parts were really bad because of the gossip.
 
I have to agree with Chessrock on the point that I would give my right eye to get to be an engineer in a big studio and make my living that way.

But if I were in Mixermans shoes I would be Jaded and frustrated to that point. Because I know how this will end and the engineer will get blamed and end up being the guy that is hard to work with.

If I were in his shoes I would hire a session drummer to do the record and just tell dumbass that was him.:D
 
All that's nice - but I still can't wait to see what happened on Monday...

If you guys are so aggravated by this article, stop reading it, eh?

Thanks for telling us about this Harvey.
 
You have to think that MM is exaggerating his negative attitude a little bit for the purposes of posting on the internet, simply to make it more entertaining for the general public. I bet what's really going on isn't quite so extreme.

And I don't think he's whining. After all, he's not saying he wants out of the project at any cost. It sounds like he wants to stick it out.
 
Since Im relatively new to this forum, I apologize for my comments directed towards chessrock being the drummer. I wasn't aware that there was a standing autoflame when someone voices an opinion. I think most of the homies would like to have the gig MM has, but its hard to say exactly how we would react to this situation after years of being tainted by in the industry. I can say that Ive been there before once or twice and that its not as easy for some personality types as others. Hang in there chess and don't worry about what others think when you voice your opinions. Life isn't one size fits all. So everyone stick that tongue in your cheek and lighten up :)


SoMm
 
Re: Week 2

Bdgr said:

Day One of Week #2: You get the feeling that the events of last week really took some energy out of Mixerman. More pathos... Reminds me of the kind of wrestling movies that only exist in "Barton Fink." If Mixerman adds some misogyny and some alcoholism, then he might get a screenplay out of this as well.
 
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Son of Mixerman said:
I wasn't aware that there was a standing autoflame when someone voices an opinion.

LOL. Only when it's one that people don't agree with. :D
 
Well, ol' Chessrock is a fine contributor here IMO. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do more often than not. The point is not to agree about everything but to share opinions. How boring it would be if we all agreed on everything, right? I like a guy who speaks his mind. And--I like to get different views--mostly because I'm so comfortable with mine that I need a little shift in focus sometimes.

Besides, he helped guide me to toob nirvana. Until I was able to try the triple tube exciter, I was never able to make eardrums bleed at will. :D
 
I'd like to take issue with Chessrock's ideas on this issue and those that hold similar opinions. Hopefully this will be viewed as a dialogue of ideas, and not a personal attack.

There are many areas in the arts where people of great talent and vision are hired and put in a position where they need to manage, direct, or organize other artists towards a common goal. As an example, we can look at orchestra conductors, film or theatrical directors, and in the case of a "hands-off" producer... an audio engineer. If we focus on the first two categories, one could very well ask: How many conductors or directors are hired because they have great patience and treat their musicians or actors always with great respect and in a polite and humane fashion?

I'm sure there are some who do, and probably more who don't. (Just ask any orchestral musician). While it's a bonus if they are wonderful human beings, these people are hired because they can create a particular product (i.e. a symphony or film) that is on a high artistic level and/or attracts large masses of people to spend their dollars.

While one can make the argument that a "real" pro would treat the artists better because it would result in better performances, the reality is also that the musician or actor better lose their thin skin - because not everyone is going to treat them with kid gloves. It's part of the business.

I've seen a world famous performer stop in the middle of a song, and turn to the pianist and say, sarcastically: "Are those your chords or mine?" Was that constructive or helpful to the show? Probably not. Did the pianist smile and say: "They're yours, sir!" and then continue to play a flawless show? Of course - because he was a pro. (I only know all this because I was the pianist...) And this was not an unusual case - some of the greatest performers have been famous for treating their accompanists like shit. And in the end, NO ONE judges them on how nice they are - only how many records or concert tickets they sell.

So to reiterate: throughout history the best and most talented artists have rarely been the most likeable human beings. If someone has reached the pinnacle of their field, it is because a large number of people in positions of power have recognized their abilities, and proceed to hire them and reward them appropriately. Or because large masses of the public are willing to purchase their products or creations. Mixerman is one such person. We can criticize his personality all we want, but guess what... given a choice between a top engineer and a top human being, the record industry is going to hire the top engineer.

It's the same with a star pro athlete. We can gripe all we want about how if we were making millions and playing a game we love, we would never be the spoiled, self-centered, etc. etc. personalities that we think a lot of pro athletes are. Well, guess what? We DON'T have their talent (at least most of us don't) and we aren't in their shoes, and we don't deal with the same pressures to perform, and the constant travel, and the lack of privacy, and the obnoxious fans and journalists... and a million other reasons why we AREN'T the same as a basketball or baseball star... so it's a little difficult to keep a straght face while listening to some amateur wannabe say: "Well, I always dreamed about being in a top pro situation, and I can tell you for a fact, if I was in their position I would do things differently..." (Sound familiar, anyone?)

But aside from all that... what we are privileged to have here is a "hidden camera" view of a pro dealing with adversity: Mixerman's brilliant account of this recording session. He is kind enough to expose his inner thoughts, most of which, to be fair, are kept inside when he is in the studio - not communicated to the musicians. In a world where you are only judged largely by the success of your most recent product, Mixerman has every right to feel his standing in the industry might very well be affected by the success or failure of this project - and therefore has every right to resent others efforts to sabotage his success, be it intentional or just through gross incompetence.

He may already be resigned to likely failure, and through his postings is keeping his sanity and salvaging a small artistic success from this cesspool - albeit a literary one instead of a musical one.

I don't know if I would have even been able to show the restraint he has shown if I were in a similar situation. But it doesn't matter, because I'm not - and most of the critics here are not. So they don't really know how they would react.

I'm not Shaquille O'Neal. Or Barry Bonds. But I would be grateful for the chance to see "the game" through their eyes, if even for a moment. And I would be even more grateful if the presentation of that moment wasn't cleaned up or sanitized to protect a few anonymous feelings, but was presented honestly.

On the other hand, what if Mixerman is pulling a Hunter Thompson on us? Maybe this recording session is a fictional account drawn from his various real life experiences! I guess we'll never know for sure...

I apologize for the lengthy rant...
 
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