for anyone that attempts to master on their own... what does your chain look like?

  • Thread starter Thread starter surfmaster
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Ford Van said:
No John. :rolleyes: It is a chain that just might work for some guys! I might not never use it, and you might not never use it, but he seems happy with it.

Some mastering engineers just don't get it.
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I think I get it just fine Ed. But tell you what - How about YOU have a listen to it. I've heard it. Evidently Farview has heard it. I'd love to hear your take on that chain when that track hits 20 seconds...
 
not an Island ...

ecktronic - I agree with Farview's comments ... you can hear the sound of the compression distinctly and the high end is very sharp and over-defined. But it is obvious that the recording was well done .......

with that in mind, no offense is intended here ... but I feel the need to say some stuff about stuff eventhough I'm not qualified to say much about anything ;)

I don't know if you're being paid for this mastering or not ... (I will go ahead and assume you are, and I think this goes out to anyone else being paid to master music). This project you have here is a classic case of why mastering isn't proper unless you actually have the right chops/gear/know-how - Mastering might not be an island in the middle of a choppy sea, but the way there is still treacherous - one wrong move and you're sunk! Of course, I am not saying "give up on mastering, it's hopeless", but definitely consider the consequences of mastering someone's material when you are not a qualified mastering engineer ... or at the very least, if you are not a qualified mastering engineer, be very up-front with your clients so that they don't expect miracles.

It would be like me charging people to record and mix their music when I know that I am not a qualified mixing engineer nor do I have all the right material and know how to be a recording engineer -- of course, it doesn't stop me from recording and mixing my own music and reading about mixing and mastering ... or actually mastering it if I want to (because I can do it without much, if any repercussions other than "oh I'd better go fix some stuff in the mix".

Now if you are doing this on your own material for kicks, or are just trying to learn more about mastering, then it's all good - do what makes you happy -

Peace
R
 
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Massive Master said:
I think I get it just fine Ed. But tell you what - How about YOU have a listen to it. I've heard it. Evidently Farview has heard it. I'd love to hear your take on that chain when that track hits 20 seconds...
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Hey guy, I have heard plenty of crap come out of mastering suites comparable to yours! I am sure you have some "gems" that would blister my eardrums.
 
RedStone said:
ecktronic - I agree with Farview's comments ... you can hear the sound of the compression distinctly and the high end is very sharp and over-defined. But it is obvious that the recording was well done .......

with that in mind, no offense is intended here ... but I feel the need to say some stuff about stuff eventhough I'm not qualified to say much about anything ;)

I don't know if you're being paid for this mastering or not ... (I will go ahead and assume you are, and I think this goes out to anyone else being paid to master music). This project you have here is a classic case of why mastering isn't proper unless you actually have the right chops/gear/know-how - Mastering might not be an island in the middle of a choppy sea, but the way there is still treacherous - one wrong move and you're sunk! Of course, I am not saying "give up on mastering, it's hopeless", but definitely consider the consequences of mastering someone's material when you are not a qualified mastering engineer ... or at the very least, if you are not a qualified mastering engineer, be very up-front with your clients so that they don't expect miracles.

It would be like me charging people to record and mix their music when I know that I am not a qualified mixing engineer nor do I have all the right material and know how to be a recording engineer -- of course, it doesn't stop me from recording and mixing my own music and reading about mixing and mastering ... or actually mastering it if I want to (because I can do it without much, if any repercussions other than "oh I'd better go fix some stuff in the mix".

Now if you are doing this on your own material for kicks, or are just trying to learn more about mastering, then it's all good - do what makes you happy -

Peace
R
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very very good words and this is exactly the trouble i go through with when i record demos for local bands. they arent too worried about the quality, as long as they have something to pass out at their next show. so i try to tell them it would be a good idea to get it sent out to a mastering house, but they just cant afford it and frankly dont care if its not the best. in this case i believe that it is a good oppertunity for me to work on my mastering skills, little by little, without trying as hard as i can to make it cd volume. and i really dont charge much at all as it is, since i'm not paying for extremely expensive gear or supporting my family or even myself.
 
Farview said:
You call that mild? It was pumping like a bitch. The highs almost took my head off. You also have some phase strangeness that kind of twists the image.
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Yeah the highs are that hi for this style of music. I dont usually add that amount of hi end but it works for this type of music.

Where is the phasing? Is it only after the mastering takes place?
What is trigerring the pumping from the compressor? The vox? The drums?

I do notice a small diference in the vox which could be what you are saying is phasing. Not sure how the phasing could come about, Please can you explain more?
 
I listened back and can hear the pumping on the kick drum. I noticed it the most at the last kick of the song sample.

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
Where is the phasing? Is it only after the mastering takes place?
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It seems that the piano gets moved farther to the right when the mastering kicks in. It could be from all the distortion and compressor puming.
ecktronic said:
What is trigerring the pumping from the compressor? The vox? The drums?[/b]Pretty much everything. The mix is tilted to the right(because of the piano) so on the right, there is a little more space. That space is what is breathing and pumping with what ever is loudest in the mix at the time.

ecktronic said:
I do notice a small diference in the vox which could be what you are saying is phasing. Not sure how the phasing could come about, Please can you explain more?
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I couldn't tell if you did any stereo widening or not, but that will cause phase strangeness. Like I said, it could just be how the rest of the processing made the mix tilt to the right and the harshness of the high end that sounds like a phase problem.

When I listened to it last night, I had just finished an 8 hour session. This morning with fresh ears, I'm noticing how distorted it is.
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surfmaster said:
very very good words and this is exactly the trouble i go through with when i record demos for local bands. they arent too worried about the quality, as long as they have something to pass out at their next show. so i try to tell them it would be a good idea to get it sent out to a mastering house, but they just cant afford it and frankly dont care if its not the best. in this case i believe that it is a good oppertunity for me to work on my mastering skills, little by little, without trying as hard as i can to make it cd volume. and i really dont charge much at all as it is, since i'm not paying for extremely expensive gear or supporting my family or even myself.
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yeah, that could be fair since the band explicitly said "we don't care if you're not a mastering engineer, we just want it loud enough"
 
Don't drink alcohol when you're mixing! (Boy, that's gonna piss off a lot of people . . .) Even one beer can destroy your ear's hi-freq response. I hear screaming hi's in mixes all the time, probably caused by alky-fueled sessions.

Give your ears a rest every 30-45 minutes. Go outside, listen to the trees, the wind . . . unless you're in a siren-filled environment.

And clean the wax out of your ears . . .

Chris
 
As far as self-mastering, my own opinion is that less is more. Get it right in the mix and then do only *what is absolutely required* after that. If the mix is right that will probably only mean taming a few peaks with a limiter. Stereo expanders, heavy compression that pumps, eqing all over the place, that should have all been taken care of in the mixing.

Using that stuff in the "mastering" process is really not mastering but an extension of the mixing process. So in the home recordist's head they think they are "mastering" but in fact are really still mixing. There is a difference.

The other really *major* issue with home mastering is that the same person is doing the mastering on the same speakers as the mix. This is not insignificant. So the mastering really becomes more like what you would normally consider a final mix.

So for home studios, if the mix doesn't sound the way you want it to when you've "finished" the mix you are still mixing after that, not mastering. Mastering doesn't happen until *after* you are completely satisfied with the mix and can't hear anything else you want to do to it.

It is at this point you make sure it is technically correct as far no overs (i.e. some look-ahead peak limiting), order of the songs, flow of the songs with regard to relative volumes and spaces in between, getting a good CDR burn that sounds like the master audio files. The only other thing you might want to do is address any frequencies that might be poking out with a touch of a tight Q parametric (before the limiter), and possibly add a little "air" (a little). This is really all there is when it comes to home mastering. If you want more than that you go to a professional with a mastering room and the proper processing and monitoring.

But again, if you get into all these extensive processing chains then you are really just continuing to mix, not master.
 
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SonicAlbert said:
As far as self-mastering, my own opinion is that less is more. Get it right in the mix and then do only *what is absolutely required* after that. If the mix is right that will probably only mean taming a few peaks with a limiter. Stereo expanders, heavy compression that pumps, eqing all over the place, that should have all been taken care of in the mixing.
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Great post and that paragraph is EXACTLY how I go about it. Maganeto and L2. That's it for me. But I still got a "No comment on that chain" for it. Thanx Sonic.
 
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RAMI said:
Man, my chain is more like a little bracelet compared to what I've been reading here. I figure less is better, especially since I'm no ME. But my so-called chain is:

MAGNETO-WAVES L2. (Using Wavelab)

Am I missing out on something? I have a million plug-ins, but I just don't feel a need to use them. I'd probably just start dialing things in for the sake of it and not really inproving the end result.
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yeah, my "mastering" involves er, uh,,


a limiter..


but i dont know what i'm doing. :D
 
good to know others use the less is more ideals in mastering too. for once the easier way out actually is the right way, if your mix is correct.
 
yes, i agree less is more in 'recording' in general. (except when it comes microphone and gear collections..)

i try to keep it simple during mixing too.
 
It seems to me that if you have a ready answer for this question, you're missing a big point. No one should have a pre-defined mastering chain. I have a collection of tools that I often go to, but the chain gets constructed for each song as necessary.
 
i wasnt really asking for a roadmap to success, just some examples of how other people go about mastering, what their tunes sound like due to their chain, and for what purposes different styles of mastering are used for.
 
Robert D said:
It seems to me that if you have a ready answer for this question, you're missing a big point. No one should have a pre-defined mastering chain. I have a collection of tools that I often go to, but the chain gets constructed for each song as necessary.
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Agreed!

I thought that I had mentioned this earlier but it bears repeating. And as has been said before, use a little as possible.

All of the posts seem to be concentrating on processing though. A mastering chain should have a great pair of monitors, room, and ears. The last being the most critical of anything.
 
TragikRemix said:
yeah, my "mastering" involves er, uh,,

a limiter..

but i dont know what i'm doing. :D
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If I'm mastering *my own mixes* that's probably all I'd be using also. Otherwise, why wouldn't I simply change whatever in the mix needs attention anyway?
 
Massive Master said:
If I'm mastering *my own mixes* that's probably all I'd be using also. Otherwise, why wouldn't I simply change whatever in the mix needs attention anyway?
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It's very difficult to hear the entire album a mix at a time. Assuming that it's just a level and possibly EQ change I don't see a reason to be constantly remastering/remixing. There's also a very good possibility you'll keep losing perspective. If there is an issue at the track level, that's another story.
 
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