first time seriouly trying to record drums, could use some help

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antispatula

antispatula

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I am completely inexpirienced with drums in everyway. Recording, tuning, processing or playing drums. Luckily for me when I actually record a serious song, I'll have someone that knows how to play drums play them, but that still leaves me with having to record them!



I started expirementing a few hours ago, and I think this is the best I have been able to get. I must say though, no matter what, I am pretty optimistic about it, seeing that I started out with this:


Anyways, can anyone give any pointers or comments? Does it sound decent or seriously out of wack? I personally think it sounds pretty good, but would really appreciate some outside advice.

I put a 57 about 2 inches away, pointing at the top of the snare, and a v67 condenser on the bottom. I've realized I can get a much snappier, punchy snare when I mic the bottom too.

Thanks for helping a drum noob out:cool:
 
Tuning's gonna be your best friend here! Get the snare sounding as nice as possible to the ear first before going near it with mics..
 
Are you in a marching band? I ask because there's a lot more to a kit than the snare. You can have the best sounding snare in the world and it won't matter if the kick sounds like a cardboard box and the cymbals kill people's ears. Get the drums in a mix with guitars and bass and see how it sounds.
 
Greg_L said:
Are you in a marching band? I ask because there's a lot more to a kit than the snare. You can have the best sounding snare in the world and it won't matter if the kick sounds like a cardboard box and the cymbals kill people's ears. Get the drums in a mix with guitars and bass and see how it sounds.
Click to expand...

Word up.:cool:
 
After a good nights sleep I've decided that snare clip was a little out of wack.
Luckily I've been able to get a good overhead sound with only two mics that cover the whole set!



please excuse the suckyness of the playing. Drums is something I am terrible at, and have no real desire to practice at.

I think with a tuned set, a good drummer, and some more expirementing and mixing, I'll be able to get a very satisfactory sound.
 
Antispatula, you have to understand this...

This kind of experiments are almost pointless... A good drummer will make drums sound a LOT different than you... Why do you spend time trying to make a good drum take, when you don´t even know how to hold the sticks?!

It doens´t work like that... But don´t worry, the guys at Listening Sessions seems to make the same mistake... ANY instrument (with a couple of exepcions, and besides the quality of constrution) will sound 1000 better on an experienced musician than in noob´s hands...

Don´t take it personal, but if you wanna learn how to record drums, the first thing to do is to have a DRUMMER! Is common sense, you know?

On the other hand, why do you want to record a detuned instrument, played by someone who doesn´t know nothing about it?

Keep experimenting, but I think that´s a whole better idea to hire (or simply invite) a good drummer (with good equipment) to do a couple of takes in your place...

JMHO,
Cheers!
J.
 
look a couple topic down.. there's a great one dealing with the recorderman set up. try that.


you have a LONG way to go before you get something usable.. keep experimenting
 
JuliánFernández;2795195 said:
Antispatula, you have to understand this...

This kind of experiments are almost pointless... A good drummer will make drums sound a LOT different than you... Why do you spend time trying to make a good drum take, when you don´t even know how to hold the sticks?!

It doens´t work like that... But don´t worry, the guys at Listening Sessions seems to make the same mistake... ANY instrument (with a couple of exepcions, and besides the quality of constrution) will sound 1000 better on an experienced musician than in noob´s hands...

Don´t take it personal, but if you wanna learn how to record drums, the first thing to do is to have a DRUMMER! Is common sense, you know?

On the other hand, why do you want to record a detuned instrument, played by someone who doesn´t know nothing about it?

Keep experimenting, but I think that´s a whole better idea to hire (or simply invite) a good drummer (with good equipment) to do a couple of takes in your place...

JMHO,
Cheers!
J.
Click to expand...

yeah for sure, that's what I'm doing but I can't meet up with the drummer till tuesday, and thought it'd be a good idea to start expirementing now. Believe me, I have no intention of playing drums but it's the best I can do till then; I don't think expirementing now is an unreasonable idea.
 
Good for you! ;)

You´ll notice how (much) hard he hit the drums, how much easy is to blend all the kit as one instrument, and you´ll have just to worry about recording the magic!

Keep us posted!
 
take a piece of string and tape one end of it to the middle of the snare. then take the other end of the string and use it to position your overhead mics. this will get them into phase with each other as they'll be the same distance from the snare.

you may need to adjust both mics from there in order to get more (or less) of the toms, cymbals, etc.....but be sure to keep them both the same distance from the snare.

when all else fails, use a single (mono) overhead.

as others have said, they need to be well tuned (with good heads) in order to even stand a chance.

past that, make sure your room is treated--nasty reflections are tamed and such......nothing can wreck a recording of a well-tuned, well-played kit like a bad room.


cheers,
wade
 
JuliánFernández said:
Good for you! ;)

You´ll notice how (much) hard he hit the drums, how much easy is to blend all the kit as one instrument, and you´ll have just to worry about recording the magic!

Keep us posted!
Click to expand...

thanks man, I definitely will

mrface2112 said:
take a piece of string and tape one end of it to the middle of the snare. then take the other end of the string and use it to position your overhead mics. this will get them into phase with each other as they'll be the same distance from the snare.
Click to expand...

yeah I've been looking at the recorderman technique. Am I supposed to do that for the snare AND the kick drum, or just the snare?
 
Greg_L said:
If all goes well, you can get both in phase.
Click to expand...

I've come across this phase issue in other brief readings...being new to acoustic drum micing, what is the issue with it and do you really need to reverse phase one of the overheads? I would think it would have more to do with audio symmetry of the room and where you place the kit and overheads, or am I completely in left field?

Sorry for the OT question.
 
Seeker of Rock said:
I've come across this phase issue in other brief readings...being new to acoustic drum micing, what is the issue with it and do you really need to reverse phase one of the overheads? I would think it would have more to do with audio symmetry of the room and where you place the kit and overheads, or am I completely in left field?

Sorry for the OT question.
Click to expand...

no, you don't want to flip the phase on an overhead. the idea here is to get your overheads in phase with each other. if your snare sounds phasey, and you flip one mic, odds are good that your snare will sound better but your toms, cymbals, etc will now be out of phase.

the beauty of the recorderman and glyn johns techniques is the focus on placing the OHs so that each one is the same distance from the snare, and also the kick. this eliminates the "comb filtering" effect you get from things not being time-aligned.

think of it this way: a snare hit generates one sound wave, but if that wave hits each mic at different times, some frequencies will get boosted and others cancelled out by this time difference. this problem only exists when using more than one mic on a sound source. each mic may sound fine on its own, but once you put the two stereo tracks together, you'll get the phasing.

i'm not going into a whole dissertation here, there are lots of places you can read about this stuff (believe me, i've spent way too much time doing just that). read the two microphone stickies--especially harvey's--and a lot of these questions will be answered.

cheers!
 
Seeker of Rock said:
I've come across this phase issue in other brief readings...being new to acoustic drum micing, what is the issue with it and do you really need to reverse phase one of the overheads? I would think it would have more to do with audio symmetry of the room and where you place the kit and overheads, or am I completely in left field?
Sorry for the OT question.
Click to expand...
You wouldn't flip an OH (typically). You might be thinking of mics from an opposite side.
The string can go to the kick beater and snare. Then as it arches over to the second mic position it keeps both points equal distance; ie, equal time, and equal Haas pan. :D
 
Yeah, what they said.

Basically, when O/H's are in-phase, the snare and kick will still sound correct and dead-centered when each track is panned out wide.


What I usually do as a final O/H phase check is record some kick and snare whacks just through the O/H's. Then I'll pan each really wide, listen, and then switch the main bus to mono. It should sound pretty damn close to the same. If you're not getting any weirdness from stereo to mono, your O/H's are most likely in pretty damn good phase.
 
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Great information that I wasn't previously aware of...thank you for the good advice. So although it is phase in nature, it sounds still like a positioning thing? There is a generally accepted placement technique? All I have to do now is hope Chance Pataki ordered enough 583s to spare some extra and I'll be set. Do you guys use large or small diaphragms for overheads, or other? Seems I've read that a lot of people use SDCs.
 
Seeker of Rock said:
Great information that I wasn't previously aware of...thank you for the good advice. So although it is phase in nature, it sounds still like a positioning thing? There is a generally accepted placement technique? All I have to do now is hope Chance Pataki ordered enough 583s to spare some extra and I'll be set. Do you guys use large or small diaphragms for overheads, or other? Seems I've read that a lot of people use SDCs.
Click to expand...

most ppl prefer sdcs on drums because they have faster response and they capture transients more accurately. others like ldcs for a broader frequency response (although you have to spend some serious dough to get the accuracy). i use a matched pair of mxl 603 mics, which are popular, harvey-recommended budget pencil condensers, and i'm really happy with them. but there are lots to choose from out there. one nice thing about the 603/603s is that you can buy a matched pair of omni capsules for them, which expands your mic locker for minimal cost.
 
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