Finally ready to record 170 children, in groups of 10...mic question remains. Advice?

[Julia]

Well...

Thanks, maskedman72.

I can't record half of each group at a time, though, because that would at times mean 20 kids at once. No can do with this headphone amp...I've only got room for 12 inputs/outputs/whateverputs, and that's 10-11 kids and myself.

That's where I get the number 10 for recording x many at a time.

If I do record 10 kids at a time, by the way, do I need TWO condenser mics or only one?

I'm still leaning toward the Studio Projects B1's, but they are large diaphram. I don't know if that would be okay.

But if I can record 10 kids at a time with only one condenser, that would save us a bit of money. Still, I want to get the better sound, so...I guess I'm looking to know how significant using 2 mics would be, comparatively speaking.

10 kids...2 mics...5 kids around each condenser. Yes? No? Run away fast?

 

[maskedman72]

since you are going to be overdubbing the kids on to seperate tracks at seperate times you would only need 1 condensor. i have put 8 people around a condensor and had them do it twice going on 2 tracks than i pan them to about 10 and 2 o'clock. works great.
i would need to know how many tracks are available for the kids(not including the soloists) you will need at least 2 for a stereo image. i would put up 1 mic and put the kids around it and run that 1 mic right into the recorder than keep doing that until its all recorded. 1 mic/1 track.

 

[maskedman72]

large dia is ok by the way and i wouldnt run screaming.

 

[Julia]

re: how many tracks...

Thanks a million, maskedman72.

To answer your question, I'll always have between 4 and 6 tracks available to record the children.

In any given song (9 total), I'll need between 2 and 4 tracks for soloists.

So...I can get 10 kids around a single condenser, you say...so should that be in omni then? The B1 is cardioid, but I suppose I could get a B3 instead, because it has a cardioid option AND an omni option.

What do you think?

Thanks a million!

Julia

 

[maskedman72]

if i were you id have em do the take with a cardio mic and be done. i think you will do fine. just put the mic back from them around 2 feet(or so) than i would put a long piece of masking tape on the floor at their toes and tell them to stand at that line shoulder to shoulder and not cross it and hit rec.

 

[Julia]

Okay, now...

Will that single cardioid condenser pick up the kid smack in front of it more than the others, or will standing them all 2 feet back take care of that issue?

I see a cardioid and kids 1 through 10 standing along a line, cardiod placed around the middle. I assume I'll hear more of the kids near the middle, and less of the kids on each end?

Yeah, i know...picky, picky...but some kids actually sing, and others scream.

I'm recording kids from age 4 through age 12, and every age in between, as well as the staff in one song.

 

[maskedman72]

the mic being 2 feet back will help. an omni might be a better bet if you are concerend about that. to keep it cheper you could go to g.c. and get the mic you want than return it when you are done for a full refund(if there is one by you). i do that sometimes.

 

[maskedman72]

the best way to put the kids would be have about 3 or 4 of them shoulder to shoulder with the smallest ones sitting on the ground than some sitting in chairs behind them and the tallest ones in back standing. than put the mic in front of that.
good luck !

 

[Julia]

Cool idea...

that's a great idea about GC...wish we had one around here. There's not a GC within 300 miles of this place, I'll bet. I've never even seen one. Only read about them here.

So maybe I should spring for a B3 then? And set it to omni? If so, should I encircle the mic with children and record thusly?

Maybe that would be a good vocal mic for recording the soloists too?

Thanks again!

Julia

 

[philboyd studge]

Re: P.S. Philboyd...

Where do you buy your blank CD-R's?

Gosh, you sure do a lot for $1.50 per CD! That's amazing!

It is going to cost me close to $1.50 per CD just for the blank CD-R!

I think I'll have to pass on the shrink wrap kit this time. Another hundred dollars I can't spare, along with the time to shrink wrap them.

Can you believe I need to record the kids, burn the CD's and get them ready within the next 7 days?

I wonder if running away is an option at this point.

I usually by my media from these folks:

http://www.ioproducts.com/

I use inkjet printable because I have a printer that prints direct to the cd - no labels, nice but too expensive an option for what you're doing right now.

Are you going to use labels on the CD's? What will the cover look like? Credits, etc.?



There will always be a better mic, a better recorder, a better preamp, a better guitar and so on. It's time to get to the task at hand and start recording the little people. When the first group comes in to record your going to be totally overwhelmed no matter what you learn in this forum, and when the last group leaves you'll be a seasoned veteran.

 

[Julia]

No, Philboyd, unfortunately...

I have no idea about the labels or the covers or anything like that. I'll have to figure something out. I had no idea I would be having requests for CD's of the show. I'm very happy with this overwhelming response from audience members, but just a little overwhelmed with the task at hand, as you can see.

I'll take every bit of advice you have regarding putting this CD together. The lower the cost to me the better, but I do want it to be a nice product for the kids and the school, so I'll do what I can do to make it so, within reason.

I once heard that putting those circular paper labels on the CD itself is a very bad idea because sometimes it causes problems with the playability of the CD. Is that so?

Any ideas for an inexpensive label and cover? I need to do some credits, at least enough for my copyright information, the list of songs, and perhaps the lyrics from the title song. That's what has been suggested to me anyway.

Hey, how much would it cost for you to do this and ship them out to me Priority Mail or something? Do you do that sort of thing for others, or only for your own projects?

 

[kid klash]

Maybe it's too late, but I'll throw my hat in the ring.

MICS
Buy :
two SP B1s ($80 x 2 = $160)
one Audio Buddy stereo preamp ($80)

Do a "stereo pair" with the two B1s and record as many kids at a time as you can handle.

BLANK CDRs
Any brand with a gold or green tint on the bottom, not blue. Office Depot usually have Imation brand CDRs at $20 for 50 disks.

LABELING
The best inkjet-printable paper labels, tray cards, booklets and software available are the NEATO brand products. They're available at Office Depot, as well as through www.neato.com
I'm guessing you've got access to a PC and a color inkjet printer...

Good luck

 

[Julia]

Okay, thanks...and (there's always more!)...

I'm guessing that means the two B1 cardioids would be a better option than a single B3 in omni? The B3 is pretty versatile in the sense that it offers omni, cardioid, and figure 8.

I'm still torn, but if for some reason two B1's are better for recording groups of children, I'll get those, because I'm going to be recording groups of children often...if this works out, that is.

Regarding the CD-R's...umm...I can't help but ask out of curiosity...why no blue tint allowed on the bottom of the disks? I can't stand the mystery...had to ask.

And those 50 Imation CD-R's for $20...those don't include jewel cases, do they?

Unfortunately, I frequently run into trouble with CD-R media and this burner of mine. Some are rejected by it. I'm using TDK's I buy at ... ahem ... God save me, WALMART...I'm paying just over 50 cents a piece of them.

This is getting expensive. Whatever possessed me to agree to this? Must have had something to do with those 170 precious little faces with the big eyes looking up at me smiling.

THanks, everyone. Send more knowledge!

Julia

 

[Julia]

At the risk of upsetting folks...

...cause I'm talking too much...

I can't help but think that the B3 in omni might offer a nice balanced recording? Anybody with experience putting a group around a single omni mic and recording them thusly? It would seem to offer a nice even mix of the vocals, because everyone would be spaced evenly around the mic, which picks up from all angles when in omni pattern.

Then, to record my soloists, I could switch over to cardioid.

Does anyone think that makes sense besides me?

 

[philboyd studge]

With seven days left to do this project I don't know if you have time to order mics.

As to labels, lots of folks use them. In the long term they could give you problems but it's still the cheapest way to get something printed on the CD. Before I got the printer I used to just autograph them and put all the data on paper that went in the jewel case.

kid klash mentions Office Depot......it's a good place to get the labeler and their house CD-R media is very reliable.

I could do them for you but probably not in the time frame here and I'd eat up a lot of your money making potential.

What is the software you use to burn CD's?

 

[Julia]

Adaptec....

What I have right now is Adaptec Easy CD Creator Deluxe.

 

[Treeline]

The B3 will give you more versatility, but a pair of B1s will catch the kids on each side, and the B1 is just impossible to beat for the money. I also think kid klash's advice on the preamp is really good; the audio buddy has a reputation for being clean, quiet and simple. And not pricey. It has two channels.

 

[mgraffeo]

Julia,

considering that cash is extremely tight, I'd recommend one of a couple of options. All involve not purchasing a mic preamp (like the AudioBuddy), because your recorder will already provide phantom power.

1)pick up a B1, not worrying about the cardioid pattern (you could slightly arc the kids, to help reduce the effect you are worried about). The increased sensitivity of a condenser mic will be a noticeable improvement for you. Use 1 mic per group, and use the pan feature during mixing to create a well layered soundstage.

or

2) use the SM-58's you've got, and be willing to use compression/ gain / noise gates to up the signal to noise ratio. This is certainly the cheaper alternative, and means you keep working with equipment you're comfortable with.

As much as I always lust over the latest technology, I think that it is important to point out that you are able to perform the task with the equipment you have already. To philboyd's point, there is ALWAYS another level of gear you could go for. Considering money and the lead time to order something, I'd look very seriously at using what you've got. You may surprise yourself at how good the recording can come out.

just my 2 cents...

 

[philboyd studge]

Re: Adaptec....

What I have right now is Adaptec Easy CD Creator Deluxe.

That'll work. After defragmenting your computer and getting out of all programs and screen savers use spin doctor to record to 16 bit .wav files and use Sound Editor to get your endings and beginnings of each song correct. Deluxe may have the 'normalize' option, if not 'amplify' will get by to get you enough volume for a playable CD. Plan on riding around in the car some playing test CD's till your happy with the mix.

Jewel case creator from version 4 on is pretty funky to me but at least it's a separate program and you can write up your text and images in whatever word and image programs you may have and simply import them. When it comes time to print, 28 lb. photo copy paper will do (back to Office Depot), brightness is usually in the mid 90's. As the images come from the printer lightly score the lines where it will be folded. Also while your at Office Depot and to save time, pick up a cheap paper slicer so you can slice your paper in groups of 3 or so.

Like mgraffeo says, "I'd look very seriously at using what you've got. You may surprise yourself at how good the recording can come out."

 

[maskedman72]

the best deal i have gotten on blank cdr's is a spindal of 100 ( imation brand)at best buy for $7.99 after rebate at best buy.