SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
That's like at least the third time you've mentioned REP points in this thread. Just forget about the REP points, ignore them. It's all about the thoughts in the posts, not the REP points.
noisedude
New member
What the hell do rep points mean? Let's go on the basis of who has actual expertise here:
- Jason 'Farview' Walsh ... studio owner and besty mate of:
- John 'Massive Master' Scrip ... mastering engineer.
But hey, I see no reason to suspect the pros are right, it's probably some anonymous internet amateur.
- Jason 'Farview' Walsh ... studio owner and besty mate of:
- John 'Massive Master' Scrip ... mastering engineer.
But hey, I see no reason to suspect the pros are right, it's probably some anonymous internet amateur.
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xfinsterx
New member
pingu said:
Hey you said it not me
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xfinsterx
New member
pingu said:
Youre making too big a deal out of the rep point thing.
If you really want to help people expose them to a good attitude while you give out facts.
I know, iknow....seems tough, but you can do it.
Have a nice day!!!
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Mixes that were recorded using *proper* levels (a decent amount of headroom in the first place, without using "hot" levels and running preamps 12-18dB hotter than they were designed to run at) usually need a LOT less "fairy dust" in the first place.
And yes, they tend to react well with whatever "fairy dust" is prinked on them.
Farview is actually a great example - I know he records with levels around 0dBVU (-18 to -16dBFS) and he sends mixes in here that usually PEAK no higher than around -8dBFS. They handle "abuse" FAR better than some other "regulars" that send in mixes that were obviously tracked too hot (and subsequently mixed too hot).
EQ'ing is easier and more effective - Compression is much more transparent - Dynamics are punchier, the end product is more open sounding... The whole 9.
Still - It's not the mix levels that are as important - Although if analog gear is used during the mix, the same thing stands. 0dBFS is around 18dB *into the headroom* of most analog gear.
And with the way mastering has been abused to use up all of that headroom - If you're going to use it all up, use it all up ONCE... Not at every chance you get. It makes a *HUGE* difference.
And yes, they tend to react well with whatever "fairy dust" is prinked on them.
Farview is actually a great example - I know he records with levels around 0dBVU (-18 to -16dBFS) and he sends mixes in here that usually PEAK no higher than around -8dBFS. They handle "abuse" FAR better than some other "regulars" that send in mixes that were obviously tracked too hot (and subsequently mixed too hot).
EQ'ing is easier and more effective - Compression is much more transparent - Dynamics are punchier, the end product is more open sounding... The whole 9.
Still - It's not the mix levels that are as important - Although if analog gear is used during the mix, the same thing stands. 0dBFS is around 18dB *into the headroom* of most analog gear.
And with the way mastering has been abused to use up all of that headroom - If you're going to use it all up, use it all up ONCE... Not at every chance you get. It makes a *HUGE* difference.
pingu
New member
xfinsterx said:
You don't go changing your mix for the sake of the mastering engineers headroom.
You get it sounding the best you can and deliver it to him.
You might as well let him mix the damn thing, or send him stems.
This guy is saying alter your mix to suit the ME to put some bullshit dust on it that should be there in the first place.
This ME is requesting headroom before even hearing the song is he not?
All of a sudden making a great record is about holding back your mixing potential and leave it up to the ME.
noisedude
New member
The mix is the same. The only difference is that rather than artificially loudening it in your own amateurish way, you leave it to the guy who you are paying to be better at that end of things than you. What's the confusion here?pingu said:
pingu
New member
Its not the same.
You shouldnt be altering your mix for anyone who has a delivery system and a mastering system with a pre determined amount of headroom that is specified before hes heard the song.
You shouldnt be altering your mix for anyone who has a delivery system and a mastering system with a pre determined amount of headroom that is specified before hes heard the song.
pingu
New member
noisedude said:
So now your the analog expert.
Its still a mixing decision.
pingu
New member
noisedude said:What the hell do rep points mean? Let's go on the basis of who has actual expertise here:
- Jason 'Farview' Walsh ... studio owner and besty mate of:
- John 'Massive Master' Scrip ... mastering engineer.
But hey, I see no reason to suspect the pros are right, it's probably some anonymous internet amateur.
These guys are sooo helpful they spend there whole time convincing you not to bother with mastering unless you have 50 grand plus worth of gear.
Read between the fukin lines and youl see it.
They are sooo helpful that they wont participate in the mastering clinics.
Yet they are quick to shoot a guy down for mastering with a plugin.
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xfinsterx
New member
To be 100% honest....my ME i work with requests i leave him some nice headroom. So i always do it. And my mixes always come outta his shop sounding killer. If it aint broke dont fix it.
Now quit spinning your wheels and have a beer fer chrise' sake!
Now quit spinning your wheels and have a beer fer chrise' sake!
Farview
Well-known member
So, This has nothing to do with headroom. Your problem is that you don't want some ME telling you what to do. Fucking grow up!pingu said:
The fact is that nobody should have to tell you to leave headroom in the mix, but the unfortunate reality is that people need to be told things like this.
noisedude
New member
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
You know something, I've seen you at a lot of forums over the past few months. You ask some "interesting" questions all over. That's all good. I know I've chimed in on several myself.pingu said:
But you can respectfully go [SELF CENSORED] yourself on those last comments. I've always been quite encouraging to people who actually want to try doing it right. I've set people up with "budget friendly" systems that they can actually *work with* as opposed to a cracked copy of Waves or suggesting the latest "magic mastering engineer in a box" plug. I get phone calls, I get *dozens* of e-mails, I get *dozens* of PM's, I can't even sign on to AIM anymore - I'm not looking to be a "sob story" but I spend PLENTY of time and effort trying to get "hopefuls" off the ground.
And you're right - If a noob comes in and says "I have a ($39) Behringer preamp and ($4200) Waves Diamond bundle - How do I make my mixes really loud like pro mixes?" I'm not going to bother. He's not interested in mastering, he's interested in using some cracked plugins to *AVOID* mastering. He doesn't even understand what it's about. I spend enough time answering reasonable questions. I'm not going to waste the rest of it on unreasonable questions.
And clinics - I used to get involved with "master-offs" and clinics. I don't have that kind of time anymore. I surf forums during QC checks and inputting. My ears are on something else. I'm sorry if that bugs you.
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NYMorningstar
Recording Modus Operandi
John, be pissed and rightfully so, the guy is an ass. Please know though that there are many people here, myself included, who "TOTALLY" Respect 'You' for what you do. There is no need for you to have to explain yourself. There's just a big THANK YOU! here for all that you've done.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Thanks, dude. Normally I wouldn't even bother replying to a post like that anyway. But I'm just not in the mood today...
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
pingu said:
To be "productive" -
You shouldn't mix to satisfy the mastering engineer. Any mix engineer who knows which end is up doesn't need to be told to leave headroom in the first place. Mastering engineers shouldn't need to "request" headroom - Any decent engineer knows to leave headroom at every stage of the recording process.
It has nothing to do with "holding back" anyone's potential. It has to do with the most simple basics of recording.
noisedude
New member
Woah ... John got mad. Stay calm dude, everyone else here is on your side!!!
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
The more I think about it, I find it rather funny - and more than coincidental - that it's often the same category of person who complains that their mix isn't hot enough that hands the ME something with no headroom.Massive Master said:
Here's a hint: You either master it yourself or you let an ME do it. NOT BOTH.
When handing a project to an ME, one should not normalize, limit-boost or do any other sort of volume processing after mixing down. That part of "making the mix sound as good as possible" is part of the mastering process, not the mixing process, and therefore to be left for the ME. If your mix comes out of the summing at -22dBRMS with -7dBFS peaks, so be it. That's what the ME gets. You don't tweak the volume first. If you're unnecessarily worried about volume, then you communicate your desires to the ME. If you want it squashed into a pancake and pushed to the limi, tell him so. If you want something else, then tell him that. But don't do him any "favors" by doing it for him; all that does is handcuff him.
G.
pingu
New member
HI guys im back for more of a bashing.