Final mix check - Thank You

[mjbphotos]

Bit of tweaking, thanks for all the comments so far.





Can't remember if I ever posted this one here before. I've been tweaking all my new song mixes in preparation for the next CD, and this one has been stable for a month, so thought it would be good to get some trained ears to listen and nitpick it!

 

[FoulPhil]

It's good playing and stuff. I like the guitar leads, not bad. I can't really hear the bass drum though. I was wondering if there was even a kick in the song. So, I listened closely and I could barley hear it on some parts. It seems pretty solid other than that.

 

[kindafishy]

There are some really positive things that stand out with this track. The chorus is catchy/hooky. I am guessing that this track would go over well live, even as people hear it for the first time. The clean lead guitar tone sounds pretty sweet to me. The walky bass is cool and really well played. I am a sucker for bass that walks around chord progressions like this.

From a critical perspective, I am finding the guitars to have some prominent boxiness to them. It is interfering with the body of your voice and some of the articulation of the bass.

The bass has a very strong sense of diminished or rounded off transients and as a result, doesn't have a lot of punchiness. The bass should really be an instrument of focus in this track as I am hearing it. As such, I think it should have a heftier, puchier, more up front presentation. I am getting the same sort of sense from the drum kit. Elements are there, but they are hard to make out much of the time. This song would benefit from a punchier and more distinct sense of rhythm in general, IMO.

At around 2:52ish, there seems to be something out of sync and sticks out a bit. It doesn't seem like something that a little careful editing couldn't fix though.

Overall, I think the boxiness and indistinct low end are holding this mix back, but it sounds like you have all the elements, so the potential is definitely there. Once those elements are in order, there may be other things that pop up, but those are the prominent things at the moment (of course, these opinions hinge on whether or not you agree that a punchier, more driving rhythm section would benefit the track, so it is highly subjective at this point).

 

[Robus]

Sounds pretty good to me. I did not think the clean lead guitar added much. There were a lot of uninspired runs up and down the pentatonic scale. If it were my song, I'd be looking for something more melodic in the lead guitar: maybe a distinctive hook, or a something that harmonizes or provides counterpoint to the vocal melody. I liked the chorus except that last line, "thank you," which felt like a let-down.

 

[jm67]

Cool song - very catchy. I can see that I will be humming this to myself all night! The basic rhythm guitar groove is killer.

But I agree that there's something about the acoustic guitars that's holding the mix back. For one thing, the stereo guitars are often slightly out of synch after the intro. So it sounds a little mushier than it might otherwise. This is one case where I wonder if stereo panned guitars are actually necessary - maybe a single forceful rhythm would actually sound better. As kindafishy said they sound a little boxy also - I'd like to have them sound punchier, really emphasizing the rhythm throughout. That might be a matter of compression (e.g. longer attack?).

Agree that the acoustic lead is a little repetitive - it tends to stick to 1/8th notes rather than providing a clear counterpoint.

But again, you've got a great song & groove to work with.

 

[Chili]

You've captured the CSN vibe if that's what you were going for. I think it's one of the better songs from you and I enjoyed the listen.

I think the vocals were weak. I think you're double tracking some parts and it doesn't work. There are parts where one track is off pitch and the other is closer but not quite there, so they sound dissonant. Try it with just one track throughout. Pitch issues will be less noticeable.

I don't mind the guitar noodling. Do it myself sometime and it fits the style you've got going.

The acoustics in the intro do sound mid-rangey and boxy. However, they work once the song gets going... so maybe you need to record them differently just for the intro.

 

[antichef]

I like it - great performance. Everything I like about the jam band sound and nothing I don't.

The vocals and everything really seems like it's missing some air level high end, and so sounds a little muffled to me, but that might be because I just burned out my inner ears with some bagpipe music.

I did want to hear more punchiness from the bass and kick, and the snare seemed a little anemic sounding to me. But all these could be deliberate choices and that would be fine.

Oh yeah, and I'm listening on headphones, so never mind.

Very fun to listen to!

 

[rayc]

Rhythm section does need more meat.
Otherwise it's nice.

 

[DM60]

I thought the guitar sounded fine, it does have a boxy sound. I agree the bass and kick were not very pronounced.


On a production:

The vocals felt like they were not as smooth and free flowing as they could be. Chorus could have used a bit more pop.

Hope you find these comments helpful.

 

[mjbphotos]

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'm going to have to look at my tracks again - I think the acoustic is just a single 12 string (double miked), but maybe I added a 6-string as my 12 doesn't have much low-mid to it (hence boxiness).
I think I dialed out some of the 'air' because it was more than I liked (in the vocal anyway).
I'll look at the kick volume and bass EQ.
Vocals - ya work with what ya got.

 

[DM60]

Vocals - ya work with what ya got.

I thought the vocals was more about repetition (familiarity) than being bad.

 

[K-dub]

Agreed. You can't change one's voice ... so you work with what you've got.

This lacks ... for lack of a better term, "edge". It's like a mix done in impressionist pastels. The drums are kind of blurry. The acoustic guitars are kind of blurry. The electric guitar is kind of blurry.

The whole winds up being what it is in a VERY stylized fashion. It's personally not my taste, but it's not "wrong" so to speak either. If it were me doing the mixing, I'd concentrate on more clarity and accentuation. There's just no enough polish applied to it yet ... and each element has its own issue needed to fix it still.

 

[FoulPhil]

Agreed. You can't change one's voice ... so you work with what you've got.

This lacks ... for lack of a better term, "edge". It's like a mix done in impressionist pastels. The drums are kind of blurry. The acoustic guitars are kind of blurry. The electric guitar is kind of blurry.

The whole winds up being what it is in a VERY stylized fashion. It's personally not my taste, but it's not "wrong" so to speak either. If it were me doing the mixing, I'd concentrate on more clarity and accentuation. There's just no enough polish applied to it yet ... and each element has its own issue needed to fix it still.

That's not entirely true lol. You can change your voice and drastically lol. You can extend your vocals range and learn all kinds of new styles of singing. That said you still want to sound like YOU not someone else. Although that's almost impossible because someone will always relate your voice (or music) to an artist they are familiar with.

 

[mjbphotos]

From a critical perspective, I am finding the guitars to have some prominent boxiness to them. It is interfering with the body of your voice and some of the articulation of the bass.

The bass has a very strong sense of diminished or rounded off transients and as a result, doesn't have a lot of punchiness. The bass should really be an instrument of focus in this track as I am hearing it. As such, I think it should have a heftier, puchier, more up front presentation. I am getting the same sort of sense from the drum kit. Elements are there, but they are hard to make out much of the time. This song would benefit from a punchier and more distinct sense of rhythm in general, IMO.

At around 2:52ish, there seems to be something out of sync and sticks out a bit. It doesn't seem like something that a little careful editing couldn't fix though.

But I agree that there's something about the acoustic guitars that's holding the mix back. For one thing, the stereo guitars are often slightly out of synch after the intro. So it sounds a little mushier than it might otherwise. This is one case where I wonder if stereo panned guitars are actually necessary - maybe a single forceful rhythm would actually sound better. As kindafishy said they sound a little boxy also - I'd like to have them sound punchier, really emphasizing the rhythm throughout. That might be a matter of compression (e.g. longer attack?).

Quickly double checked this one this morning. 12 string is panned 2/3 left, 6-string 2/3 right. Both are playing the same rhythm, but I'm not changing that, so there wil lbe points where they are not quite in synch. Wonder if some EQ differentioan between th etwo would so anything (I don't think either has an EQ on it right now) - or panning them more togehter or further apart. I don't want to elimiate one of them - the 12 string doens't have enough oomf to it, and the 6-string doesn't give the right sound by itself.
I added a bit more 'drive' fromthe Silverface sim to the bass which seemed to help it. The kick sounds pretty balanced on my monitors, but I don't really want the drums to become dominant in this one.

Agreed. You can't change one's voice ... so you work with what you've got.

This lacks ... for lack of a better term, "edge". It's like a mix done in impressionist pastels. The drums are kind of blurry. The acoustic guitars are kind of blurry. The electric guitar is kind of blurry.

The whole winds up being what it is in a VERY stylized fashion. It's personally not my taste, but it's not "wrong" so to speak either. If it were me doing the mixing, I'd concentrate on more clarity and accentuation. There's just no enough polish applied to it yet ... and each element has its own issue needed to fix it still.

"Blurry" is a new adjective for a mix I've never heard before - can you elucidate?

 

[ido1957]

The drums are the only part I didn't care for. The kick is a litttle clicky for this - it's there I can hear it ok but it lacks a little bottom end (on my system at least). The snare beat is a little busy but I'm no drummer...

Tough to balance the snare against acoustic rhythms - I think if you were to up the drums you'd also need to up the rhythms, and the voice and the bass etc etc. Then you get into a punchy mix thing which is I'm not sure you're aiming for. I find the drums tend to define the amount of drive and everything sort of goes accordingly.

As a guitar player I do notice the synchronicity is a wee bit off on the rhythm tracks. It's impossible to match 100% and the difference adds to the variety. In my mind the eq is fine and it won't improve anything.
I get a nice round mound of sound from the right and a bright chimy sound from the left. The bass sounds really nice in this CSNY type arrangement. You could tweak it up a bit but right now it's got a good flow and any more may start masking the rest of the mix.

 

[K-dub]

Sure Mike -- other synonyms would include "muted" ... "muffled" ...

There's just a lack of distinction, as if the edges of the each have been purposefully been slightly covered by a shroud.

 

[mjbphotos]

The drums are the only part I didn't care for. The kick is a litttle clicky for this - it's there I can hear it ok but it lacks a little bottom end (on my system at least). The snare beat is a little busy but I'm no drummer...

Tough to balance the snare against acoustic rhythms - I think if you were to up the drums you'd also need to up the rhythms, and the voice and the bass etc etc. Then you get into a punchy mix thing which is I'm not sure you're aiming for. I find the drums tend to define the amount of drive and everything sort of goes accordingly.

As a guitar player I do notice the synchronicity is a wee bit off on the rhythm tracks. It's impossible to match 100% and the difference adds to the variety. In my mind the eq is fine and it won't improve anything.
I get a nice round mound of sound from the right and a bright chimy sound from the left. The bass sounds really nice in this CSNY type arrangement. You could tweak it up a bit but right now it's got a good flow and any more may start masking the rest of the mix.

Well, you've got the guitar parts pinned down (and the same idea as me that changing the drums much will mena changing all the instruments) - left side is the 12 string, which is my Ibanez and doesn't have a lot of low end, and the right side is the Taylor 6 string which I like un-EQed, generally. Both were recorded with a 2-mic set up, one at the 12th pointing towards the soundhole, one at the lower bout. Panning is the same on the mics, so I might try to widen them out a little (each towards the center) to see if the blend works better. The boxiness others mentioned is definitely from the 12-string which is louder for the pre-vocal intro.

Sure Mike -- other synonyms would include "muted" ... "muffled" ...

There's just a lack of distinction, as if the edges of the each have been purposefully been slightly covered by a shroud.

"Muted and muffled" would indicate to me a lack of high end definition - is that what you mean?

 

[mjbphotos]

Bit of tweaking based on the comments.

 

[Tadpui]

I remember this one from earlier. I think that you've tamed that high peak on the acoustic guitar that I've heard on previous mixes of yours. Although the mix overall could use some mid-high or high frequency in it. Not enough to make it brittle or piercing, but just enough to add a little life. This is when I'd pull out Variety of Sound's (free!) Baxter EQ and put maybe +3 dB on the HF dial, and set the shelving frequency to 4kHz or 7kHz, and put it right before the limiter on the master bus. I find myself doing that a lot to add a little zing into my mixdowns. Sometimes it's just what a mix needs, but sometimes not.

The first verse vocal sounds like you're a little tense. I do this myself as well, that first verse is a bitch to relax and get it right. I've often thought about setting up my recording on a loop so that I can do the vocal for the entire song, then immediately loop back around and do the first verse again while I'm still loose and more confident.

I like the solo guitar tone (both acoustic and electric). And I think that the relative levels and panning are pretty well spot on. The only thing that sounded out of place to me was the kick. Not sure what to suggest for it since I've used and struggled with that same kick sample myself (and many many others!). I think it's just too modern sounding for this particular track.

I like this song, I like the feel of it overall and how the solos make good use of the backing chord changes.

 

[DM60]

Everything sounded balanced.

I still feel the vocals could be a bit more relaxed and better flowing. The words just seemed jammed in there. You might want to revisit to see how you can get them to hit better with the beat.