Feedback on E-Mu 1212M? Good A/D converters?

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Hoodoo

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I'm in the market for a good, under-$200 soundcard with MIDI in/out to sit alongside my Audigy 2.

I was leaning heavily towards the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 until I started reading about the fairly new E-Mu 1212M, which seems to have better analog-digital converters and higher sample rates (up to 192khz).

The specs (from the E-Mu website) are below.

Anyone have any direct experience with this card? Any good reasons NOT get this over the m-audio 2496? Any reasons why I'd want/need balanced 1/4" in/outputs over the 2496's RCA in/outputs? (my mixer has both) It's $50 more, so what does this really buy?



The E-MU 1212M features:
* Mastering-grade 24-bit, 192kHz converters - the same A/D converters used in Digidesign®'s flagship Pro Tools® HD I/O Interface
* Flexible connectivity with 1/4" balanced analog I/O, 24/192 ADAT I/O and 24/96 S/PDIF I/O, MIDI I/O plus a FireWire® port for seamless integration with your entire studio
* E-DSP 32-bit Multi-effects Processor offers you over 16 simultaneous hardware-accelerated studio-grade effects with no CPU overhead - plug-in architecture allows you to add new effects as needed
* 32 Channels of zero latency Hardware Mixing/ Monitoring with super-flexible virtual patchbay - no external mixer needed
* Full compatibility with most popular audio/sequencer applications with ultra-low latency WDM, DirectSound® and ASIO 2.0 Drivers
* Powerful software studio package

I/O Configuration:
Two 1/4" Balanced Inputs
24-bit/192kHz ADAT In/Out (switchable to S/PDIF)
24-bit/96kHz S/PDIF In/Out (switchable to AES/EBU)
MIDI In/Out
Firewire® Interface

E-DSP Hardware-accelerated Effects, Mixing and Monitoring:
E-MU's Digital Audio Systems feature the powerful E-DSP chipset, which features a hardware-accelerated effects processor with over 20 effects plug-ins (over 500 presets). This effects architecture is fully expandable, allowing you to add more effect plug-ins to your system as needed. E-DSP also provides zero-latency, hardware-based mixing and monitoring via the included PatchMix DSP mixer, delivering unmatched flexibility in routing audio between all of your physical and virtual (ASIO/WDM) inputs and outputs- no external mixer needed.

All Digital Audio Systems ship with the following Effects Plug-ins:

1-Band Para EQ 1-Band Shelf EQ 3-Band EQ
4-Band EQ Auto-Wah Chorus
Compressor Distortion Distortion
Freq Shifter Leveling Amp Mono Delay 100
Mono Delay 3000 Stereo Delay 100 Stereo Delay 1500
Phase Shifter Rotary Speaker Simulator
Stereo Reverb Vocal Morpher
 
Read the fine print. WDM driver support is still buggy. Apparently ASIO functionality isn't supporting 24/96 either. In the tradition of the SB cards, Creative is still releasing unfinished product that doesn't deliver everything they promise.

I have heard the DSP fx aren't that great either - you'll still want to use software plugins.

You would get true 24/96 with the Audiophile. If you really want 1/4" balanced inputs, you can look at the Echo MiaMIDI also.
 
brzilian said:
Read the fine print. WDM driver support buggy. Apparently ASIO functionality isn't supporting 24/96 either. In the tradition of the SB cards, Creative is still releasing unfinished product that doesn't deliver everything they promise.

I have heard the DSP fx aren't that great either - you'll still want to use software plugins.

You would get true 24/96 with the Audiophile.
Click to expand...

But if I'm using the ASIO driver should I care about this?
 
Also, aside from the 24/96 WDM as noted, wouldn't the balanced inputs provide more headroom (and better signal quality) than the inputs on the Audiophile 2496?

This article led me to believe so, but I would like to hear from the experts here...

E-MU 1212M, 1820M Digital Audio Systems
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1563056,00.asp
 
Hoodoo said:
Also, aside from the 24/96 WDM as noted, wouldn't the balanced inputs provide more headroom (and better signal quality) than the inputs on the Audiophile 2496?
Click to expand...

Balanced cables and connections only make a difference if you're running very long cables or otherwise know they will be succeptible to interference. Otherwise, you will see (or hear) no difference.
 
I personally love these cards. The WDM support is bad, but I haven't experienced problems with ASIO 24/96. My driver experience so far has been much better than with M-audio or Aardvark. The sound quality is VERY good, better than the Q10 I previously had.

Note, that there are some annoyances if you want to keep the Audigy 2 in the same system. Check out: http://www.productionforums.com/emu/

I love the E-mu stuff, but you probably should check out another card (Like the Echo) if you want something to coexist with your Audigy.

Edit: oh...and I personally think cutting and pasting specs of items your asking about is kind of silly. I mean, are you asking for users who don't know the item to mull over the specs? Should people who are familiar with the card look at the specs as well while forming their posts based on their experience? Just a thought...
 
I appreciate the input. I listed the specs for those "experts" who may not have this particular card, but would be able to differentiate its capabilities from the m-audio or other card they may own.

I really like the 2496 for its price/features standpoint. I simply hate that "buyer's remorse" you get whenever you buy technology and discover something better was already out there when you purchased.

Just trying to avoid "e-mu envy" if I end up going with the m-audio card... ;)
 
The effects do not work above 48Khz on these products so I have read.
 
From the article I referenced above:

"One major bummer about both products is that both have both reduced I/O and functionality when running at 96KHz and 192KHz. For instance, the effects engine is disabled on both products when running at these resolutions, which is likely due to a limitation of the 10K2's effects engine. In addition, both products have reduced digital I/O at the higher sampling rates, which are detailed in the products' documentation. ADAT light pipe is reduced to four channels at 96KHz, and two channels at 192KHz. The reduction in digital I/O is annoying, but the complete loss of the effects engine really hurts, since it's one of the product's coolest features."
 
brzilian said:
Read the fine print. WDM driver support is still buggy.
***Just to clarify. It's not buggy, it's just that we do not support the higher sample rates and Multichannel via WDM at this time.

Apparently ASIO functionality isn't supporting 24/96 either.
***Our ASIO 2 implementation DOES support 24/96 and 192.

In the tradition of the SB cards, Creative is still releasing unfinished product that doesn't deliver everything they promise.

I have heard the DSP fx aren't that great either - you'll still want to use software plugins.
***They aren't Waves but they weren't meant to be. They are clean and usable like say the FX in an 02R. Also they're basically free, and don't hit your CPU.

You would get true 24/96 with the Audiophile. If you really want 1/4" balanced inputs, you can look at the Echo MiaMIDI also.

Best,
ICHi
E-MU Systems
Click to expand...
 
Hoodoo said:
From the article I referenced above:

"One major bummer about both products is that both have both reduced I/O and functionality when running at 96KHz and 192KHz. For instance, the effects engine is disabled on both products when running at these resolutions, which is likely due to a limitation of the 10K2's effects engine. In addition, both products have reduced digital I/O at the higher sampling rates, which are detailed in the products' documentation. ADAT light pipe is reduced to four channels at 96KHz, and two channels at 192KHz. The reduction in digital I/O is annoying, but the complete loss of the effects engine really hurts, since it's one of the product's coolest features."
Click to expand...
***Also to clarify. Any implementation of higher sample rate ADAT(SMUX etc) will result in lower channel count.


Best,
ICHi
E-MU Systems
 
Nuclio said:
brzilian said:
***They aren't Waves but they weren't meant to be. They are clean and usable like say the FX in an 02R. Also they're basically free, and don't hit your CPU.
Click to expand...

Actually, its more like $50 since a similar card can be bought from M-Audio or Echo Audio for $150 without the DSP.

If your system is fast enough, the CPU hit is no major deal.
Click to expand...
 
I have the original Mia, and I have no plans to upgrade. Maybe just upgrade my front end. The converters are otherwise fantastic.
 
e-mu 1820

I've been looking into all different recording interfaces for my computer. E-mu's products really caught my eye, but other than that, i'm really not sure where to go. I want something with very good quality that I won't regret buying, and I need a couple XLR's with phantom power. I have been layering tracks by myself with a twelve dollar microphone and a free audio program and burning music to cd's from it. The possibilities are endless! $400 is max for the interface, but i'll have more for mics, cables, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you! :o
 
Actually, its more like $50 since a similar card can be bought from M-Audio or Echo Audio for $150 without the DSP.
***Similar but not equal. Your forgetting ADAT, WAY better converters, and expandability, would those not be worth $50?

If your system is fast enough, the CPU hit is no major deal.
***True. But not everyone has the latest and greatest.


Best,
ICHi
E-MU Systems
 
Nuclio said:
Similar but not equal. Your forgetting ADAT, WAY better converters, and expandability, would those not be worth $50?
Click to expand...

The 1212 going up against the Audiophile and MiaMIDI so therefore its is an entry level card so to speak. I have no use for ADAT and neither would most users considering either of the other two cards, so no, its not worth the extra $50 to me.

Way better converters is a subjective thing. I am always weary when companies claim they are giving you something for nothing. Half of the time its not the case. If you were actually able to implement higher end converters into a $199 card, it is because you cut corners elsewhere. I've been around the block a couple times when it comes to product development.
 
Those EMU cards are the real deal. I have read nothing but good reviews about them. I have the 1212m and am about to upgrade to the audiodock. The ADAT functionality is great especially when using preamps. Here is a song recorded with the 1212m.



-Savoy-
 
brzilian said:
The 1212 going up against the Audiophile and MiaMIDI so therefore its is an entry level card so to speak. I have no use for ADAT and neither would most users considering either of the other two cards, so no, its not worth the extra $50 to me.
***Fair enough.

Way better converters is a subjective thing.
***please don't take this wrong cuz i'm not trying to argue with you, just laying down the facts because we know it's hard to believe at the prices, but a 12-18db delta in SNR/DR is not a subjective thing. It can be heard. 6db is double, so we're talking 4-6 times as quiet, and 4-6 times the range.
120db SNR/DR, -110db THD+N and <800ps Jitter(that's clocked)
You can hear this.

I am always weary when companies claim they are giving you something for nothing. Half of the time its not the case. If you were actually able to implement higher end converters into a $199 card, it is because you cut corners elsewhere. I've been around the block a couple times when it comes to product development.
***In as far as the audio path we cut very few corners. The AK5394 is the best AD converter in the world today and any engineer would die to use it. As for the other features? Home grown chips give us an advantage.


Best,
ICHi
E-MU Systems
Click to expand...
 
jayster10125 said:
I've been looking into all different recording interfaces for my computer. E-mu's products really caught my eye, but other than that, i'm really not sure where to go. I want something with very good quality that I won't regret buying, and I need a couple XLR's with phantom power. I have been layering tracks by myself with a twelve dollar microphone and a free audio program and burning music to cd's from it. The possibilities are endless! $400 is max for the interface, but i'll have more for mics, cables, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you! :o
Click to expand...

Check out the M-Audio Delta 1010LT. 2 XLR ins with preamps plus another 6 analog inputs, 8 analog outs. $280 from Musicians Friend

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...29222585/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/701376/
 
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