Ever sent someone home to practice?

[mrbowes]

If the musician can't nail it in 5-10 takes, then take a break or try to work on another part of the song.

If they still can't nail the part after coming back to it again, then it's time to discuss what's not working and offer suggestions for improvement. If you consider yourself a producer, then it's your job to address these issues.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

If the musician can't nail it in 5-10 takes, then take a break or try to work on another part of the song.

If they still can't nail the part after coming back to it again, then it's time to discuss what's not working and offer suggestions for improvement. If you consider yourself a producer, then it's your job to address these issues.

See, that's what I was getting at. The whole "shut up & collect" attitude is something I can't make myself do when a band has me sign on as a producer. Is it not a producer's job to do what it takes to make the album happen?

 

[DavidK]

See, that's what I was getting at. The whole "shut up & collect" attitude is something I can't make myself do when a band has me sign on as a producer.

I suppose thats very admirable of you. the problem with it is actually trying to make a living, because the scenario you describe could literally happen with every single band you record, and thus every single JOB you get.

Is it not a producer's job to do what it takes to make the album happen?

That all depends on how you want to make your living, seriously. If you want a "day job" and want to record on the side, turn away anyone you want. If your sole job in life is music and you need to pay the rent, you wont be turning away many people without taking their money.

I used to teach violin, I dont anymore. I found myself being the worlds most expensive babysitter. If I was to turn away everyone who was unprepared, I would have turned them all away.

Steve, turn away whoever you want to. Its your life. More power to ya for taking a more altruistic approach. But keep in mind how often this scenario will come up. You are getting paid to be a pro turd polisher, but the key words:

1. Getting

2. Paid



Making a living in music kicks ass. However, it takes a balance of good gigs and bad ones to do it, no matter what. If I turned money down from gigs I thought werent up to my standards, I would be broke.

 

[TerraMortim]

If the musician can't nail it in 5-10 takes, then take a break or try to work on another part of the song.

If they still can't nail the part after coming back to it again, then it's time to discuss what's not working and offer suggestions for improvement. If you consider yourself a producer, then it's your job to address these issues.

if they can't nail it...nail them to a cross and crucify them...There's no excuse for not being perfect!!!

 

[TerraMortim]

I don't think he said he was turning them away... At least that's not what I got from it. I'd work with people that I'm not 100% into, but I'll always make damned sure that what comes out is better quality than when it was brought in to me. So far, I haven't run into a single person who has had a problem with this, so I don't quite get what you're saying David. I hear that you do a lot of stuff, so I don't think you're full of shit, I just don't understand why you could run into so much trouble giving creative input into a project.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

I don't think he said he was turning them away... At least that's not what I got from it. I'd work with people that I'm not 100% into, but I'll always make damned sure that what comes out is better quality than when it was brought in to me. So far, I haven't run into a single person who has had a problem with this, so I don't quite get what you're saying David. I hear that you do a lot of stuff, so I don't think you're full of shit, I just don't understand why you could run into so much trouble giving creative input into a project.

This is, in fact, what I was getting at.

 

[mshilarious]

I used to teach violin, I dont anymore. I found myself being the worlds most expensive babysitter. If I was to turn away everyone who was unprepared, I would have turned them all away.

That would be my three daughters . . . in a few hours, they will have their violin lesson, for which they are eternally unprepared!

 

[TerraMortim]

you should cut their heads off and bury them in the back yard... that is unacceptable!

 

[DavidK]

so I don't quite get what you're saying David.

I am saying this:

Always take the money!

 

[pipelineaudio]

I am saying this:

Always take the money!

I am one of the most worthless, pile of shit, sorriest excuse for a semi-human being you will ever meet

yet even *I*

Have more respect for my lifelong art and science of audio engineering to give enough of a shit to refuse money in cases like these

 

[DavidK]

I am one of the most worthless, pile of shit, sorriest excuse for a semi-human being you will ever meet

yet even *I*

Have more respect for my lifelong art and science of audio engineering to give enough of a shit to refuse money in cases like these

Hmmmmm, that wouldnt be my take on it at all. I would suggest that you dont respect your skills, time or talent ENOUGH. Being a good or bad human has nothing to do with anything.

Really, cmon. If you're a pro, your time is literally money. I cant tell you how many times I have to turn down stuff because I am already booked. If the one that is booked falls through, I just lost two gigs because its too late to get the other back.


Every other PROFESSION, from Mortician to Roadkill guy or miniature golfer, is expected to get paid for doing their job, no exceptions. The guy at Home Depot does, the toll taker does. Whay the @(#($(%$ should it be ANY different for us???? Its bullshit.

Everyone in life constantly tries to avoid paying the band/orchestra/wedding singer/engineer/ jazz band/ producer/whatever. They can pay for everything else, but when it comes to the music, all of a sudden the money aint there. Play a wedding sometime: the money is there for the $5,000 ice sculpture, but they forget the check for the $100 pianny player.

Respect YOURSELF and YOUR HARD EARNED SKILLS. Why am I so animated about this:

Because I have been in the music biz for a quarter century and have seen this a zillion times. These idiots have done Steve wrong, wasted HIS time, HIS money and HIS talent, and insulted HIM by not being prepared. Fuck them, they walked all over you. Take their money, kick em in the ass and tell them to never waste a minute of your time again. Its a complete and total insult for someone to show up unprepared. Rewarding that behavior is ridiculous and brings down the entire music scene.

If you hire me, I will give 100% every time, which is why I work constantly. If you show up unprepared, you dont have any respect for me. Fine. Just gimme your money since I was there, and we can go our seperate ways. I was prepared and you werent.

 

[mixmkr]

I like that last answer...

But who says you have to put your name on it...and why isn't your studio putting out stuff that will prove that even unprepared players aren't the cause of lousy recordings.

I mean, you can still have a great recording, but a lousy performance. That should be enough in itself.

 

[TerraMortim]

I am saying this:

Always take the money!

of course. I don't think that was ever disputed in this thead =D

I'll always take the money... but I'll always try to put some creative input into it. Never had a problem doing that...that's kind of what I'm talking about... it's not like it has to be only one way or the other...even stuff you don't like what you're recording that much, if you have the ability to do so, you will be able to at least improve it further than what it would have been had it been left alone...and what artist would sit there criticizing you or not wanting to come back to you when with you their music sounds 10x better?

 

[TerraMortim]

I mean, you can still have a great recording, but a lousy performance. That should be enough in itself.

kind of... I think that some of the greatest recordings out there are partially that way because of the great performances of the artists. Part of the trick is trying to get those great performances out of them.

 

[mwthompson]

Around here people are obsessed with that, or fucking hippie jam band music... any time I meet someone who does audio and they show me what they work on, it's almost always filled with acoustic guitars, djimbes, whiney vocals, and lyrics about saving the cockroaches from the big bad satanic corporations, or planting trees like they johnny god damn appleseed or something. There was one guy that actually wrote what sounded like a love song to some cows, practically from the pages of a peta2 propaganda book, about how we're just like the nazis, because we're committing genocide on all the cows we eat.. Fucking vancouver hippies.. I want to put a sharpened steel bumper on my car and start driving on the sidewalk and plow down those hypocritical (hippiecrital?) self important PC losers, kind of similar to in South Park when they had that huge hippie grinder thing that they were plowing all the hippies down with at the national hippie jamfest. (Can't you tell I love hippies?)

Bwahahahaha! Fucking Hippiecrits.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I am saying this:

Always take the money!

I don't disagree with the intent or sentiment behind what you're saying here, Dave. I guess the way I see it, though, is that there's money to be had any number of ways; one does not have to do the shit work just to make money.

I was making an excellent living as a computer engineer/trainer, with a much higher salary and distinctly better health and benefits packages than what I am now. I chose to switch tracks - in fact guided my career to places like D-Vision and Discreet Logic make that switch, small, easy and logical - and go into independent production. This was a quality of life issue for me; I had to take the chance to do what I really was molded to do while I still had the chance.

I'll tell you right now that if that meant recording wankers who can't even play their instruments because they want to make CDs like a rock star without having to worry about actually playing music, I'd find something else to do in a heartbeat because that would drive me nuts. I'll give Don Kirshner's phone number to those Monkee wannabes. Life is too damn short for me to spend it that way, and I have too many things I want to accomplish to hang around the slums of wankership. I have too much respect for myself and my skills to do otherwise.

But that doesn't mean one has to forego earning a living. There's money to be made out there without having to wank. It may take more creativity, more work, more time and more flexibility, and it certainly requires the talent and people skills to pull it off; it's not the easy money of taking $35/hr from a bunch of not-yet-ready-to-record players. it's harder than that. But it's far more rewarding.

In the meantime, if a band does come along that is plain and simply not ready to record - and it's happened to me many times - I feel it's part of what they are paying me for to give them my honest opinion in that regard. I won't be Dr. House about it, I'll be kind and constructive. But if the drummer can't hit the snare the same way twice, and the guitarist sounds more like he's playing the A Train than an A chord, yes, I will indeed suggest that they spend a little more time practicing before they spend their limited resources on me or any other engineer. Otherwise, I'lltell them IMHO, they are just throwing good money after bad.

G.

 

[Elton Bear]

Even the bots are draggin' up old threads!