EV and BLUE collaborating?

cominginsecond said:
He starts selling clones of the BLUE mics before he legally can? Smart move, buddy.
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He's not "cloning" them if he designed them. I've seen this argument a lot, and it doesn't make sense:

FACT: JZ claims to have designed and manufactured BLUE's traditional line of mics and claims to have the right to continue doing so under his own name

FACT: BLUE is rather vague about the the design and manufacture claims, not really denying them, but complains that JZ is trading off of BLUE's image

CONCLUSION: BLUE must have designed the mics because JZ is copying BLUE.

Do you see how that conclusion doesn't really follow?

...new shipments of BLUE mics (none of which will say "made in china" on them) are being delivered to stores.
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Which mics? I know dealers who have said they can no longer get any of BLUE's traditional lines. It's all balls, bluebirds, and the cheap stuff that JZ doesn't lay any claim to have designed or manufactured. Can anyone confirm that BLUE is still shipping Kiwi's, Cactus's, Mouses or any of those? Those are the good ones, not the "balls".
 
nkjanssen said:
Do you see how that conclusion doesn't really follow?
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Yes, and I hadn't expressed that conclusion, if you carefully read my posts.

nkjanssen said:
Which mics? I know dealers who have said they can no longer get any of BLUE's traditional lines. It's all balls, bluebirds, and the cheap stuff that JZ doesn't lay any claim to have designed or manufactured. Can anyone confirm that BLUE is still shipping Kiwi's, Cactus's, Mouses or any of those? Those are the good ones, not the "balls".
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BLUE was out of these models for a while, but there are shipments coming to retailers, and they won't be saying "made in China" on them.
 
nkjanssen said:
FACT: BLUE is rather vague about the the design and manufacture claims, not really denying them, but complains that JZ is trading off of BLUE's image.
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Quote from BLUE: "These parties [Violet and JZ] have also attempted to mislead our distributors and customers about the origins and identity of our products."

I would call that a denial of at least some of the claims made by JZ. Like I said, I don't buy the idea that JZ out and out designed all of these mics, nor do I buy the idea that JZ necessarily had nothing to do with their design. What I object to is people like flyingfaders pretending they know the truth of the matter when the truth is very much up in the air right now.
 
cominginsecond said:
Yes, and I hadn't expressed that conclusion, if you carefully read my posts.
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My mistake. When you said that JZ is selling "clones of the BLUE mics", I assumed you meant that, in your opinion, BLUE had designed them and JZ was cloning them. I guess you meant something else.

BLUE was out of these models for a while, but there are shipments coming to retailers, and they won't be saying "made in China" on them.
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So, they'll be assembled in the U.S. from Chinese parts? That might qualify them as "made in the USA", but I'm not sure it's quite the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I love BLUE mics. Over the years, I have used and owned several. They're not always the right choice, but when they work, they are magic. The Bottle, the Kiwi, the Dragonfly, the Mouse. Those are classics. The "BLUE Ball", on the other hand? Garbage. The "baby bottle"? It's OK on occasion, I guess. But, if that's the future of BLUE, they may as well manufacture them in a sweatshop overseas. Because I'm not going to be buying them anyway.
 
cominginsecond said:
Quote from BLUE: "These parties [Violet and JZ] have also attempted to mislead our distributors and customers about the origins and identity of our products."

I would call that a denial of at least some of the claims made by JZ.
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It's vague. "Origins and identity"? Are they talking about JV's claim to have designed and manufactured BLUE's mics for them in Latvia or JV's claim that certain current BLUE mics are manufactured in China? I suspect BLUE is denying the latter, while crafting the press release so that people might think they are denying the former.

What I object to is people like flyingfaders pretending they know the truth of the matter when the truth is very much up in the air right now.
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It's amazing how much truth can be gathered, though, by taking conflicting claims and seeing where they line up. If you look closely, BLUE hasn't directly or clearly denied very much of what JZ has said.
 
nkjanssen said:
If you look closely, BLUE hasn't directly or clearly denied very much of what JZ has said.
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JZ has said he designed the mics and he's said they are going to be manufactured in China from now on. That's the crux of his argument about why you should buy from him and not BLUE. BLUE seems to be denying one or both of these claims. I think, given the circumstances (they're in litigation after all), BLUE is being about as forthright as they can be.
 
nkjanssen said:
My mistake. When you said that JZ is selling "clones of the BLUE mics", I assumed you meant that, in your opinion, BLUE had designed them and JZ was cloning them. I guess you meant something else.
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I meant he was creating clones of mics manufactured by the company BLUE. If the mics he sells are identical to the BLUE mics, they are clones, and that's what I meant by that. My use of the word "clones" is not a comment on who the actual designer of the mics are.

BTW, there's a designer that Skipper Wise always talks about in interviews (Saulesperson? Something like that?). Do the people out there that think that JZ is the sole designer of the BLUE line think that he's simply Latvian window dressing to cover up the fact that BLUE proper does not do any of its own design? That Saulesperson had nothing whatsoever to do with the design of these mics? If so, what do you have to back that claim up?
 
nkjanssen said:
The "BLUE Ball", on the other hand? Garbage.
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It's OK for the money. Keep in mind it's only $99.

nkjanssen said:
The "baby bottle"? It's OK on occasion, I guess.
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I couldn't disagree with you more. It's a great mic IMO, especially considering I got mine when they were $499. It's not the best vocal mic on all sources, but it's amazing on guitar cabs and great on acoustic guitars for a certain sound. It takes very well to EQ, IMO, which increases it's versatility.

Just didn't want your opinion of the mic to go unbalanced.
 
cominginsecond said:
That Saulesperson had nothing whatsoever to do with the design of these mics? If so, what do you have to back that claim up?
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I'm not making any claim. JZ is. I'm just wondering what BLUE's response is. As far as I have seen, BLUE hasn't claimed that Saulesperson or Skipper or anybody else at BLUE actually designed the mics. Maybe they have claimed that, but I haven't seen it. I would have been far less suspicious of BLUE if they had simply said "The Mouse, Cactus, Bottle, etc. were all designed by a team of people headed by Saulesperson. Saulesperson and Skipper together determined the final voicings of all models before they went to production." But instead, they make vague, general denials of JZ's claims, and it's not even clear which of JZ's claims they are denying. On the other hand, JZ has been very specific in his claims. It all just makes me a bit suspicious of BLUE and makes me think that there might be something to what JZ is saying. One is specific and clear, the other is general and vague. Maybe, just maybe, BLUE isn't the victim here.
 
cominginsecond said:
It's OK for the money. Keep in mind it's only $99.
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That's what I'm afraid of - that "OK for the money" is going to be BLUE's new standard.

[The Baby Bottle is] a great mic IMO, especially considering I got mine when they were $499.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but "great" is a pretty strong word. I found it useful on guitar cabinets as well, but there was always something that I found more useful (where the baby bottle worked, usually some kind of ribbon worked better). Again, it may very well be good "for the price", but that's not what I'm hoping for out of BLUE.
 
nkjanssen said:
Again, it may very well be good "for the price", but that's not what I'm hoping for out of BLUE.
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I meant great for the price, but it makes no sense to me to leave price out of the equation. You're almost always going to get better performance as you pay more.
 
nkjanssen said:
One is specific and clear, the other is general and vague.
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One is a very small company (at best) and one is one of the biggest names in microphones right now. One has a hell of a lot more to lose than the other. BLUE also has a professional reputation to uphold, and calling another company full of crap doesn't fall into that reputation. The statement they issued was professional, yet didn't provide enough detail to complicate the pending litigation. Makes sense to me.

I don't think BLUE is a victim here necessarily, I just know that none of us know enough to make any judgements either way.
 
cominginsecond said:
In your opinion. Your anti-BLUE bias seems to be causing you to spread questionable rumours about them.
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FYI, we received several BLUE models to try. We were told that they would sit well will vintage Neumanns, which we own many of. We were told that they could also refurb Neumann mics in the beginning. So they sent mics, in their factory sealed boxes, and all of them showed up either broken, or sub par for the money.

I am not bashing BLUEs mics per se, as some of them are good. They are just too pricey for what they are. If you were to take the sales BS that BLUE does out of the picture, then the price from the manufacturer should be lower by 10-20%. I personally don't care who is selling at AES, who is a good old boy, etc. Times have changed. Economics for the studio no longer allow for paying for names and associations. It is the sound and/or quality that will make or break you.

Again:

1. BLUE is no longer offering any of their mics made in the Baltic.
2. Blue is no longer offering the previous models.
3. Blue never produced a picture of their plant, the mics in production, or anything else to prove that they are the manufacturer (which they admit they were not), and Violet/JZ have.
4. If you can't see who made who, then you are blind enough to pay too much for what you get, because Skipper is a nice guy.
 
flyingfaders said:
If you were to take the sales BS that BLUE does out of the picture, then the price from the manufacturer should be lower by 10-20%.
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Unfortunately, JZ seems to be charging about the same as you can (or could) buy the BLUE-branded versions for here in the US.
 
flyingfaders said:
1. BLUE is no longer offering any of their mics made in the Baltic.
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If by this statement you mean that they're no longer offering the Mouse, Baby Bottle, Dragonfly, etc, this simply isn't true.

flyingfaders said:
2. Blue is no longer offering the previous models.
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See above. Just because they're having problems filling orders now does not mean these models are discontinued. I've called 8th street, and they're getting an order in in 20 days.

flyingfaders said:
3. Blue never produced a picture of their plant, the mics in production, or anything else to prove that they are the manufacturer (which they admit they were not), and Violet/JZ have.
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I never said that JZ wasn't the manufacturer. I've said I don't know. And neither do you.

flyingfaders said:
4. If you can't see who made who, then you are blind enough to pay too much for what you get, because Skipper is a nice guy.
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Tell me where you can get a mic that sounds just like the Baby Bottle for less than $600. The JZ clone is questionable, and it's only slightly less than the BLUE model. In any case, I buy the mics because I like their sound, not because Skipper's a nice guy. I've never met Skipper.
 
nkjanssen said:
Unfortunately, JZ seems to be charging about the same as you can (or could) buy the BLUE-branded versions for here in the US.
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Unfortunate. I think that they might have to eat a few bucks to get people to buy. I see ads all the time by the Chinese OEM companies, receive catalogs from them as well, where they show their version of Crest, Nexo, Crown, JBL, etc. They may have been a manufacturer, but that is it. It does not mean that they have the same technology inside. I think that the Violet/JZ is obviously not this way, since they provided designs, are still selling them, and BLUE has moved on.
 
Hey, if you're crazy enough to send money to a website out of Latvia with some clown who looks like Zippy the Pinhead, then go for it. Regardless of the legal rightness or wrongness of the whole thing, the JZ and Violet image and marketing plan seem more aimed at alienating people from buying Blue mics than getting people to purchase JZ or Violet mics (originals, clones, knockoffs or whatever).
 
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