ethan's articles

  • Thread starter Thread starter FALKEN
  • Start date Start date
FALKEN

FALKEN

*************************
the "my god, an amazing thing happened" thread got to me.

and I started reading the first 10 or so articles on ethan's site.

and I can't help but think that maybe some of those modes and comb filters actually sound good for some instruments.

in fact I know that in the right situation they can.

so, there's that.

I definitely would not want to spend a bunch of money on "acoustics" only to find that I can't get the sound of my room back! and who wants a dead recorded sound anyway? I would much rather record the room ambience, however crappy, then add a digital reverb, infinitely crappy.

so i guess now I am just confused.
 
The idea isn't to create a hemianechoic chamber, it's to have a controlled acoustic environment. You want some reflections without resonances. The reflections give you ambience but the resonances either soak up acoustic energy or create annoying peaks. Once it's under control you can bring in reflective panels to add a little more liveliness when you want to.
 
ok, wait;

first ive gotta spend about 2 grand on a controlled (dead) environment, then ive gotta spend more money to get the "lively" sound back?????

the most expensive pre, mic, and compressor I have are each about $150. I probably have a few of each in that range. So I don't see myself spending 2 grand on an acoustic gravity chamber - but if that is what is going to keep my mixes from sucking then do i really have a choice????

Then is the issue of is it for mixing or for tracking????

because I could pick up a couple of those auralex pom-poms on mic stands for 500 bucks and put them near my drums so they sound nicer. would that even be enough??

is this for real?????
 
Not Quite

"I would much rather record the room ambience, however crappy, then add a digital reverb, infinitely crappy."

I think you have a few things confused and should do some more reading on the subject. Good software reverb when applied to a "dry" recording will sound infinitely BETTER compared to a recording made in a room with CRAPPY room ambience. By all means, if you have a great sounding room with ambience then record in it, but most often this is not the case, and a mostly acoustically dead room is preferred. If you are using a single room for tracking and mixing, you most likely would want the room to be as dead as feasible within your budget.

"The most expensive pre, mic, and compressor I have are each about $150. I probably have a few of each in that range. So I don't see myself spending 2 grand on an acoustic gravity chamber - but if that is what is going to keep my mixes from sucking then do i really have a choice????"

Acoustics will not "keep your mixes from sucking," as this involves a multitude of variables, but acoustics are an important part of the puzzle. Try to keep some sort of balance in the gear you purchase and the things that you learn. It seems as if you understand that concept with your statement about your current gear, although if you have "a few of each" you may have been better off just getting one good (expensive) item in each category. If you ever end up spending thousands of dollars on mics, pres, and compressors, then a couple thousand dollars for acoustics (an equally important ingredient in recording), will not seem so absurd.

Go to http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html and READ

Hope some of this made sense - ciao, Jason
 
FALKEN said:
...a controlled (dead) environment...

Contolled and dead are not the same thing. You want some natural reverb without having a room that won't shut up at A440. I apologize that I'm not explaining it well. A good violin top (if I'm thinking correctly) is lively but doesn't ring a certain note. It amplifies all pitches equally.
 
FALKEN said:
ok, wait;

first ive gotta spend about 2 grand on a controlled (dead) environment, then ive gotta spend more money to get the "lively" sound back?????

the most expensive pre, mic, and compressor I have are each about $150. I probably have a few of each in that range. So I don't see myself spending 2 grand on an acoustic gravity chamber - but if that is what is going to keep my mixes from sucking then do i really have a choice????

Then is the issue of is it for mixing or for tracking????

because I could pick up a couple of those auralex pom-poms on mic stands for 500 bucks and put them near my drums so they sound nicer. would that even be enough??

is this for real?????

Where you are confused is the idea that controlled = dead.

Not so at all. It's about getting rid of flutter echo and standing waves.

That doesn't make your room dead. It makes it useable for recording.

If your room has a big honking node at 250Hz your gonna get that every time you set up a mic. If it's in your mixing space than your recordings won't translate to other systems well because you're hearing more 250Hz than anything else.

Figure it out.

And who told you it would cost $2,000 to treat your room? $2k of Auralex would be a waste of good money. $2k of well-designed treatments done with rigid fiberglass soundboard would give you a great sounding room that would be much easier to work in than an untreated space. For drums you really should look into slot resonators.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm
 
apl said:
Contolled and dead are not the same thing. You want some natural reverb without having a room that won't shut up at A440. I apologize that I'm not explaining it well. A good violin top (if I'm thinking correctly) is lively but doesn't ring a certain note. It amplifies all pitches equally.

Violin tops will resonate notes. But the makers try to make the resonate frequency one that the violinist would never normally play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: apl
I think we are coming at this from different perspectives...

JasonB93117 said:
Good software reverb when applied to a "dry" recording will sound infinitely BETTER compared to a recording made in a room with CRAPPY room ambience.

This is totally dependent on opinion and taste.

JasonB93117 said:
By all means, if you have a great sounding room with ambience then record in it, but most often this is not the case, and a mostly acoustically dead room is preferred.

So you are saying that if I like the sound of my room then it is fine and I don't "need" this stuff. ?

JasonB93117 said:
Acoustics will not "keep your mixes from sucking," as this involves a multitude of variables, but acoustics are an important part of the puzzle....If you ever end up spending thousands of dollars on mics, pres, and compressors, then a couple thousand dollars for acoustics (an equally important ingredient in recording), will not seem so absurd.

Okay because Ethan's website makes it seem like you can't live without the stuff; even if you use mostly inexpensive recording gear.

JasonB93117 said:
Hope some of this made sense - ciao, Jason

ciao
 
c7sus said:
And who told you it would cost $2,000 to treat your room?

ethan's room package (rounded up a little for effect).

I read everything and figured out what I would need and his room package has it all. almost like he put the thoughts into my head...
 
probably cuz he has done this before... get off your high horse and try and learn something.... dont be ignorant man..
 
Falken,

> I can't help but think that maybe some of those modes and comb filters actually sound good for some instruments. <

Sure they can. As an effect.

You already got some good advice, and this point made by apl nailed it:

"You want some reflections without resonances."

There's no doubt that some ambience is desirable. But crappy ambience is far worse than none, and also worse than what you can get from even a cheap reverb unit.

--Ethan
 
There is one other thing that no one has mentioned here, other than the resonances. How can you tell what your recording REALLY sounds like if the ROOM alters your perception of what you hear everytime you playback the recording. Let alone when you record. There are three things at play here.
At least, this is the theory as I understand it.

One. If you have a seperate control room from the studio, unless you have a TIME DELAY GAP(TDG)in the control room longer than in the studio, your perception of comb filtering or reflections in the studio will be masked, which affects your mixing choices. Usually, this is caused by early reflections from the front and side walls, ceiling and console face, which mask the studio TDG( comb filtering at the engineering position will affect what you THINK you are hearing in the monitors.) This TDG in the control room is created by treating these areas whereby the engineering position is in a REFLECTION FREE ZONE. This also implies, that a reflection from the rear wall must be at least 3ms longer than any reflection in the studio in order to hear it as the mind will integrate all sounds arriving at the ears within 2ms of the direct sound. If your rear wall doesn't allow for a minimum round trip time delay of 3ms, then you might as well treat it to absorb.
Two, if you record in the same room as you play in, then you CAN"T monitor the recording itself simultaneously on the studio monitors. That means you only have the recording itself to tell you what is on the media. If the existing room acoustics ALTERS your perception of the recording, then you have NO idea what it will translate to other rooms like. In other words, if you EQ according to what the room tells you, your choices will not be correct, because everytime you do, the room STILL lies to you.
Three, specular reflections from the rear wall may have extreme comb filtering. If this distance from engineering position to the rear wall allows for a 3ms delay, then diffusive elements should be added for a smooth RT-60 decay, although some claim there is very little proof of a diffuse sound field in small rooms. Although, I've seen "professional" test result illustrations of these decays. Whether or not this is current control room dogma, I don't know. What I do know is these problems remain the main culprets of control room monitoring. However, these are in addition and to the resonance/standing wave problems, at least from my understanding.
I'm certainly no expert, but this is what I've read by authors who are. Whether or not this is current train of thought is of no consequence, as the realities are the same, regardless. How you interpret it or treat it is up to you. Some may argue and dispute this. So be it. Enlighten me further so I can update my understanding of The Master Handbook of Acoustics and current control room design dogma, as it changes yearly.
fitZ :)
 
Could some one give a link to eathans site as I would like to read his articals....
Thanks
 
As I build up my home studio and do acoustic tests, I am starting to notice that much of this grandular detail surrounding the sound acoustic treatment of a room is just a load of BS.
 
BigHighLonesome said:
As I build up my home studio and do acoustic tests, I am starting to notice that much of this grandular detail surrounding the sound acoustic treatment of a room is just a load of BS.
Surely you jest.

*bangs head on desk*
 
Originally Posted by BigHighLonesome
As I build up my home studio and do acoustic tests, I am starting to notice that much of this grandular detail surrounding the sound acoustic treatment of a room is just a load of BS.
How does one "test" while building a studio. Even when finished, what do you mean by tests? To find out what and using what to measure and evaluate with? Over the years I'm sure professional acousticians and studio designers have come to this same conclusion. Not. :rolleyes:
 
Question: "How does one "test" while building a studio"

A : EARS

Question: Over the years I'm sure professional acousticians and studio designers have come to this same conclusion. Not

No shit, ya' grumpy bastard :cool: Sorry for russling feathers, but there's a variety of ways to do research when insulating and building a room.
 
FALKEN said:
so i guess now I am just confused.
As easily as you may become confused you can also reach a point at which it all becomes clear.

Perhaps you should heed forverain4's advice.....
get off your high horse and try and learn something

Don't be so quick to jump the gun and diminish the advice and expertise offered by Ethan. If it weren't for the likes of Ethan, John Sayers, Harvey, Alan, and many many others like them.. who freely share their expertise here.. regardless of the fact that they host forums of their own elsewhere... they should be appreciated for taking their time to be here and share their expertise.

It's a fact of life that my simple recording environment reaped marked improvement after I had read all that either Ethan or John has posted here or elsewhere. By that...I mean to say that I rearranged my room and constructed (built) traps based upon the free advice they offered.

Shame on you for being so quick to shrug off advice and experience.

Before I forget to mention them.....Harvey and Alan....they are the main mic guys IMHO.....period.
 
Building a solid home studio should not be like painting a 747 with a Q-Tip.
For sure I love the articles, and I have read most of them. Not taking anything away from the more experienced crowd here, I just want to remind the newbies that you dont have to go the distance with all the minute details to get a decent sounding room. I have gone a little too far in my construction though...

Just get as much mass -- air -- mass as you can in there.
 
Back
Top