Equipment Check

[JordansFan585]

Alright, here's my shopping list. I'm a poor college student so before I go spend what little money I have, I want to make sure I'm getting all the bang for my buck that I can. If any of this is just junk, let me know. If I can get anything with the same quality as these but for less, let me know. Basically, any suggestions would be great.

Basically, this is just a new hobby for me (I have a tendency to get into expensive hobbies. What's one more, right?) It'll just be me and my acoustic guitar. Ocassionally I may bring in another guitarist, but I'm only going to invest in one microphone so that limits the amount of vocalists. I can go back and record harmony for myself in a different take, right? Cause that's what I'm thinking I'm going to do.

So here's what I've got:

Compaq Presario 2500 (40 GB harddrive, 448 RAM, Pentium IV processor, CDR/RW)
Ovation Celebrity CK057 (its got a pickup that I use on stage. can i just plug that into the board to record, or will I need to mic it? I'd rather just plug it in. And will I need a box like the ones they give you to plug into when you're on stage? See, I really am a newbie.)

Here's my shopping list:

Echo Gina 24-Bit Multi-Track Digital Recorder Card (found one for $300. Am I going to have to open up my computer to install this? Is there one where I won't have to open my computer?)

Sennheiser e835 microphone (found one for $20. Can't beat that. Just going to be used for lead vocals. If it turns out I have to mic my guitar, I'll invest in a nicer mic that's recommended for acoustics)

BEHRINGER EURORACK UB802 (do I need this? Can I plug my guitar into this? ect ect)

I realize I'm going to need a quarter inch cord for my guitar and a mic cord for the mic. Any other cords I need to know about? Will all this equipment work together well? Suggestions? Comments? Does this sound like a decent setup for a beginner? And is this the cheapest way I can go (except for the Echo thing. That will probably come as a birthday present. But I can't reasonably ask for anything over $300 for a birthday present).

Sorry I have so many questions. I did a lot of reading and went to that site that somebody put up (can't remember the name). But it was awesome. With the recommended equipment and flow chart of how to plug in, ect ect. Anything I'm missing? Anything I don't need? For software, I plan on downloading the free one. N-track or something like that. Because all of this is going to be expensive enough and I've exahusted my software budget for a while (you guessed it, another hobby of mine is computer programming and graphic design and web design - man, those programs set you back $200 a pop. But can't live without them).

Anyway, I'm rambling. Suggestions? I'm COMPLETELY new at this.

Been playing guitar for a year. Piano for over 10 (i might plug a piano into the board if I can get a decent keyboard - meaning full size with a pedal and weighted keys as opposed to the piece i have right now. but for now, lets not worry about the piano). Songwriting for a couple months.

 

[noisedude]

Would that be my little website? http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nikkeefe

If so, then thank you very much for your kind words.

Here's my answers ... I wouldn't spend $300 on the soundcard unless you need something specific from it that you can't get for a lot less in the M-Audio Audiophile. This is a great card for not much money and if you need more channels of inputs and outputs you can get a Delta 44, 66, 410 or 1010...

The Sennheiser is an excellent choice, however all dynamics need a good preamp to make the best of them so bear that in mind.

The Behringer isn't the best preamp but to be fair is a handy little mixer. I personally wouldn't buy another Behringer mixer for my recording chain, but .... ! So maybe a Yamaha MG10/2 (£75 English money) would be good. And yes, you do need a preamp of some kind.

Now your instruments. Unless you particularly want the effect of a 'direct' acoustic guitar - MIC IT! The sound is way better ... even on that plastic-back Ovation If you MUST 'line' the guitar, then it can go into any mixer/preamp/DI box. You could use a DI box straight into the soundcard, but for more control (or to buy less gear) use your mixer.

The same can go for your piano. I've had one or two nice-ish sounds with direct lined-out electric pianos but really you want to try to mic up a real piano. Now I can't advise you loads on mic technique/position but I can tell you that for this a condenser may be more your thing. The SP B1 is one that is very highly reccomended, I'm going to be buying a pair shortly to experience for myself.

Sorry, that's quite a ramble as well but I hope it helps you. I've only typed this much because you said nice things about my site (which is a piece of University web design coursework in fact!!!) so you best keep the compliments coming!

 

[JordansFan585]

HAHA. Yes, your website was the one I looked at. I'm a webdesigner myself, and I loved your site. Very informative and not killing the eyes with crazy backgrounds. Graphics all served their purpose. Very fast to load (course, I am on high speed with a fast computer). You established your credibility (course, i did get the link from this site). ect ect. Overall, I really liked your site.

None of that was just to get you to talk to me either, lol. I thought about that after I typed it.

Mmk. But that soundcard that you mentioned... am I going to have to open up my little laptop to install that? I work with computer programming, but I don't know squat about the actual mechanical workings of a computer. So... that would be a huge obstacle for me. If I have to open up my computer to install it, then I'll need to look for something else. I can neither trust myself to do that nor pay someone else.

Ok. I actually was looking at B1's before I decided on the Sennheiser (I'm getting close to learning some brand names for this stuff. Yay! That makes me feel like I know something). Found one for $70. So it would be better to hook up that mic and catch my guitar with that? Is that pretty powerful? Problem is that I move when I'm doing any sort of strumming (especially fast) so I'd be rocking back and forth. I'm assuming the mic would be a nice enough mic that that wouldn't make a difference in the sound, right? As in how loud/quiet, right?

So the Yamaha MG10/2 thing is what you'd recommend? Looks like in US$ its going to be at 100. But I'm sure I can find it cheaper on ebay (yes, I buy everything on ebay). And yup. I did find it for cheap on ebay. And it says its got Phantom Power. I read about that somewhere else. That it was good/needed/ect. Sweet.

Ok. Cheaper and better = that's what I'll do for the mixer.

Modified shopping list:

Yamaha MG10/2 mixer
Still the sennheiser ($20, that's just too good)
Maybe a B1 (already forgot the brand name)
Soundcard: still up in the air. Guess the Echo one isn't so good. I'm still a little bit hesitant to get something i'll have to open up my computer for, though. any other options?

PS: the stand up piano I have is worse then the keyboard (hasn't been tuned in 10 years and 2 moves). I suppose since I'll have the whole setup on a laptop, I could move it to my church for a bit and use their REALLY NICE grand piano that I LOVE. But that might be more work then its worth. But really, the piano is a non-issue right now.

 

[notbradsohner]

the yamaha mg mixer is perfect for you first of all. It has the best pre-amps built in by far in that price range.

The phantom power will only do you good if you are going to use a conderser, like the b1. Condenser mics are not powered, and the phantom power powers them. (look at the specs for power requirements, phantom power provides 48 volts.) If you go the senneheiser dynamic route, make sure that you have phantom power turned off, because those mics are already powered.

As for the soundcard, yes, you will have to open it up to install it. If you choose not to do that, usb sounds like the way to go for you. Check out things like http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--TASUS122 . DO NOT USE THE PREAMPS ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS. GET A MIXER.

Mabye you dont even need a soundcard.
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--FOSMR8
This thing is a standalone, which means you can record and mixdown on this machine, and then go usb out to the compter. I would recomend this personally. 6 mono and 2 stereo tracks should be plenty for you with room to expand.

WOW!! that was a lot.

by the way, make sure you get a studio projects b1, and not a behringer

 

[JordansFan585]

So... with the phantom power... I'd probably be recording both the vocals and the guitar at the same time. So I'd be using both the B1 (Yes, I did mean the studio projects one) and the senneheiser at the same time. But the thing says you can turn phantom power on/off for all 4 at once. So... one mic NEEDS it and the other doesn't. Is that a problem if its on and the senneheiser doesn't need it? Will it destroy the mic? Hmm. Bad idea, I'm thinking.

Its not possible that my computer might already be equipped with a sound card that would work? I emailed them and asked (when I was trying to see if the Echo was compatible with my computer) and they said my laptop is equipped with a PCI 2.1 CardBus. Probably doesn't help at all, but I figured I'd ask anyway.

Is there any sacrificing of quality if I go with a USB thing? Or is it generally the same as a regular sound card, minus the opening up of your computer?

And how hard is it to open up a computer and install something? Especially on a laptop. My mother is pretty mechanical and she's installed more memory and a bigger harddrive on her desktops before. Would installing a new soundcard be something that an amateur could do? (one who would memorize the instruction manual for how to do it and follow the pictures explicitly)

 

[noisedude]

Okey dokey, plenty of questions there ... I'll answer them in whatever order they come to mind!

You can't put a standard PCI soundcard in your laptop. Sorry. So it's USB or Firewire/i-link for you I'm afraid. Luckily for you, M-Audio make USB versions of their cards so you could opt for one of them. There are lots of USB devices but what you really need is quality converters, and in a lot of the cheap Edirol solutions floating around at the moment my guess is that the budget for converters has been lower than what M-Audio will have spent.

Phantom power - there's no problem having it switched on whilst you have dynamics connected. Condensers need up to 48V to charge the back plate of the capacitor that makes them work (if you remember high school electronics, a condenser mic is just a capacitor using air as the resistor). I use Senns and condensers at the same time using PP - the only rule to increase safety is to switch the power off before changing any cable connections, although most people ignore that without any dire consequences!

I think that's everything ...

 

[JordansFan585]

Something like this?

http://www.eastcoastmusicmall.com/product/NONE/none/MDM+MIDISPO2.htm

But I'm wondering, since all these says MIDI on them, if they'll work for me. I'd like to record my tracks onto mp3's (eventually, after all the tracks are combined and whatnot). Does this only work for MIDI?

 

[noisedude]

As you rightly guess, that's just a MIDI interface. This is what you'd need if you have firewire:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/19660

And if you just have USB:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/2064

Or another, cheaper option which I have no knowledge of but is made by Edirol (Roland's budget brand, like Tapco/Mackie or Squier/Fender):

http://www.dv247.com/invt/14677

This last one wouldn't be my choice cos it looks like it has a cheap preamp or at least a gain control on it which you may not be able to bypass to use a superior outboard one.