EQ w/ Headphones or Monitors?

[RAMI]

You are following like a sheep and are closed minded.

No, unlike you, I'm using my ears. You're just too obsessed with trying to be right and can't face the fact that you do not get an honest replication of your song with headphones. Beieve me, my friend, you're not the exception to the rule...Don't flatter yourself...your ears aren't that special. Sorry.

 

[RAMI]

So instead of arguing over it (and failing to convince either side), let's just agree to disagree for now, and let time, technology and experience be the final judge.

Yeah, Ghandi's right.

 

[TheDewd]

No, unlike you, I'm using my ears. You're just too obsessed with trying to be right and can't face the fact that you do not get an honest replication of your song with headphones. Beieve me, my friend, you're not the exception to the rule...Don't flatter yourself...your ears aren't that special. Sorry.

You should do a little research about high-quality headphone systems before bashing them. My ears are not that special, I agree, but if you search and try a little, you will find out that $ for $, headphone systems CAN'T be beaten for flatness and accuracy. This is a known fact. It's simply easier to make better headphones systems at lower $$$ than better monitor systems at lower $$$.

My argument (and which no one wants to argue about), is that a quality headphone system can only be matched flatness and accuracy-wize, by a much more costly speaker monitoring system. Since I don't have a lot of money to put on monitoring systems (I don't have $50 000 or more), I bought myself a nice quality headphone monitoring system. All I'm saying is that it's better to mix using quality headphones (since they are flatter and more accurate) than using $300 chineeese made monitors with internal amps.

 

[RAMI]

I think this settles it.

 

[TheDewd]

I think this settles it.

Lol Well, if Einstein himself wrote it...then I guess I'm wrong lol!

 

[LeeRosario]

What's the consensus? Is it better to EQ using headphones or monitors?

It depends:


-If you have a wicked tuned room with super flat speakers, then go for monitors. Occasional reference on head phones for the fine details.


-If you're like 95% of all home recordists that can't afford the 500grand to get it all perfect, a good set of head phones for EQ adjustments are actually better.

Even if you have awesome monitors. The room has everything to do with that, so if you have a room that lies to you (and it will), you're going to be very dissapointed with your end result.

It won't sound like you thought it did.


So I in that senario, your head phones are probably going to be used more frequently for EQ desisions. Not so much for mixing desisions like panning and placement.

 

[RAMI]

So I in that senario, your head phones are probably going to be used more frequently for EQ desisions. Not so much for mixing desisions like panning and placement.

Exactly. Just what I said about 10 posts ago.

 

[soundchaser59]

Well, I dont honestly know what planet I'm from, but every mix I've ever done in any room, good or bad, was always better than any mix I ever did on great phones......

 

[LeeRosario]

Well, I dont honestly know what planet I'm from, but every mix I've ever done in any room, good or bad, was always better than any mix I ever did on great phones......

Oh well, I mean you're still going to use your monitors for most of the mixing. Just more frequent use of headphones.


The wording.

 

[TheDewd]

Well, I dont honestly know what planet I'm from, but every mix I've ever done in any room, good or bad, was always better than any mix I ever did on great phones......

Simply because you are used to listening to music on speakers. I am used to listening on headphones, mixing on speakers requires some adjustments from my part. The bottom line is you have to mix on what you are used to. But I hate it when people say it is impossible to mix on headphones simply because they are used to speakers.

 

[altiris]

If you have both why don’t you try them both and let your ears decide which ones would give you better mixes.

 

[Robert D]

I have the 240DFs, and they really are spectacularly acurate. But clear delineation between mixing and EQ'ing needs to be kept in mind in this discussion. For both editing, and EQ decisions, I trust my 240DFs more than my KRKs in my semi-tuned room. But of course, no amount of being used to listening to headphones, and no amount of money spent will overcome the physical realities of cans vs monitors for phase and imaging perception. Also, reverb and other effects shouldn't be set with headphones.

 

[TheDewd]

I have the 240DFs, and they really are spectacularly acurate. But clear delineation between mixing and EQ'ing needs to be kept in mind in this discussion. For both editing, and EQ decisions, I trust my 240DFs more than my KRKs in my semi-tuned room. But of course, no amount of being used to listening to headphones, and no amount of money spent will overcome the physical realities of cans vs monitors for phase and imaging perception. Also, reverb and other effects shouldn't be set with headphones.

Well, the physical reality of headphones is that they are more flat and accurate $ for $ than speaker systems. What you want when mixing is a flat and accurate system right? Of course, I always agreed that when mixing with headphones you have to make periodical checks on monitors, just to be sure the effects you are talking about are well put. But on the frequency response and dynamic response side, the headphones are much better than monitors $ for $.

However, I have gained enough experience with my headphones to be able to set effects quite right. I agree this is not obvious at first and it takes practice, but when you get it, you can set effects good with phones. The key is listening a lot to pro tracks with headphones and learning the effects with them by comparing on monitors.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Einstein also thought the Cosmological Constant was correct and that an expanding universe was incorrect. Even he could be wrong,

I am one of the "sheep" that in general prefers monitors over headphones

BUT

something needs to be pointed out in this thread, IMHumbleO. "Mixing in headphones" and "EQing in headphones" are two different animals. EQing is only a small part of mixing.

When the author asks about EQing in headphones, my response would be stick to monitors unless your monitors really suck. Even the best headphones - open or closed, "flat" or "peaked" - are going to add "unnatural" coloration to the percieved frequency response. This is due to the very nature of headphones in general. The size and proximity of the drivers combined with their de-coupling from the environment.

While it sometimes can be possible to translate from this coloration to non-proximate (i.e. non-headphone or earbud) playback, it is in general much more difficult (on good phones) to impossible (on bad phones) to make such a translation. On the other hand, an accurate translation from a great pair of 'phones is probably about as easy as it is from a pair of crapola monitors in a crapola room. In this way, I'd have to say that Dewd is not incorrect in theory.

However, in real life, I think that the chances that someone is going to have simultaneous access or budget to headphones that are better for EQ than their monitoring environment is extremely slim. Stick to the monitors for EQ.

Now, that's for EQ. "Mixing" entails many different processes, each of which can require entirely different sets of tools. EQ is just one of those many processes. For EQ, monitors may far more often than not be more appropriate than headphones, but when it comes to other aspects of "mixing" - things like setting the pan stage, creating verb tails, and low-dbFS signal processing - decent headphones can not only work just fine, but sometimes are preferable to monitors.

Also: the right tool for the right job. Someone who is engineering for majority playback on phones or buds (e.g. podcasts, mobile MP3 playback) is doing just fine mixing on phones and buds.

G.

 

[noisewreck]

If you have both why don’t you try them both and let your ears decide which ones would give you better mixes.

Better yet... make it work on both monitors and headphones alike and chances are good that the mix will translate well on other systems. For monitoring I use Mackie HR824s and AKG K240S phones. If I get a mix that sounds good on both, then from experience I know it will translate well on other systems. I tend to use the phones a lot more as I do most of my music at night and I'm not that antisocial So when it comes to mixing I try to use the Mackies as much as possible, specially for checking for bass and muddyness.

 

[Valley Arts Kid]

something needs to be pointed out in this thread, IMHumbleO. "Mixing in headphones" and "EQing in headphones" are two different animals. EQing is only a small part of mixing.

G.

Right. My original post was about EQ'ing. I think we can all agree to mix w/ monitors.